Use of the term krabi versus darb

Philip · 30th December 2004, 03:39 AM

The design of the fittings on the sheath of the "krabi" shown above is a dead-ringer to the scabbards on a type of Vietnamese saber called a "guom". Note the three metal fittings, with indented contours, the markedly tapering chape with a graceful upswept terminus, and the position of the upper suspension ring (very near the throat). All these features are in common with the scabbard of a typical "guom", which on better examples is mounted in embossed silver. The difference is mainly in material: Vietnamese scabbards are frequently of rosewood, delicately inlaid with MOP.

Many guom have knucklebow guards, like this krabi, albeit of different contour and decorative treatment. I have always attributed the presence of knucklebow hilts in Vietnam to French influence, but after looking at some rather similar "parang nabur" hilts, I'm starting to broaden my outlook. Now that I see this Thai scabbard, I'm wondering even more.

I plan on giving a talk on Vietnamese swords in Timonium this coming March, and will have a few examples of guom to show. 'Will look forward to discussing these points with you guys there.

wilked aka Khun Deng · 30th December 2004, 06:03 AM

Just as I was finishing this long post explaining the Thai language and alphabet and my conclusions, one of my buddy's a native Thai stopped in. Here's his explanation.

He says "daab" is a low class term used for common warrior swords of a certain type and pointed to a picture of a dha. "Krabi" is a mid-class term used for the swords of officers of a certain type and then id'ed the sabers in my book. There is no high class term for sword, the sword itself will have a "name" as in "Andura the Flame of the West" (can you tell I did the Lord of the Rings marathon on Christmas) preceded by the word "prasang" which is used to identify any item of high class use.

So
daab/darb is dha
krabi is an officer's saber
And the swords of the upper class can be of any type, dha, krabi, or japanese but will have their own unique name.

Philip, interesting note on the resemblance of Vietnamese sabers. Now that you mention it I did note the same type sabers held in old pictures of Vietnamese and Khmer royalty. I won't be able be at Timonium but maybe you could post it afterwards.

Radu Transylvanicus · 30th December 2004, 07:34 PM

Krabi-krabong becomed now Dhabi-Dhabong ?

Nobody Siamese corrected me when I reffered to the Thai sword ( the dha as we know it) used in this sport as ,,krabi,, ?

wilked aka Khun Deng · 30th December 2004, 11:27 PM

Don't know why the contradiction in terms however I have my suspicions. Thai's love words that rhyme or have a jingle such as many of the sayings they have "Khrai kai kai gai ti kai" (who sell's chicken eggs at the camp) it all sounds like the same word when said fast and means nothing they just like to say it, another favorite of the Thai soldiers is "mia ma mia mee mia mi ma mia mi mee" (if my wife is with me I have a wife, if my wife isn't with me I don't have a wife) even the women crack up at this one -go figure. I think they used the term krabi just because it flows with krabong.

I've now asked 5 Thai Nationals, 3 gave me the same explaination I have already passed on and drew pictures to verify the other two were unaware of any difference. I suspect this is probably the same case with many cultures while they know the word they don't know the varites implied by the word. I know many in America that could not tell you the difference between a saber and an a scimitar but they know they are both swords.

Titus Pullo · 13th January 2006, 05:54 AM

Being a Thai and knowing the modern Thai language, I know that Krabi refers to as to narrow double edge swords, or daab song kom meaning double edge swords...like the Chinese Jians. The term daab is used very loosely, I guess. But when they talk about big European swords, like the Vikings', they call them daab, also. My guess is it's probably because the big double ege swords can inflict serious wounds on someone like the Thai daabs. Officially, in the Thai language, I think krabi is a double edge sword big or small. I'm not that sure either because I spent all my time here in America, learning English--although, I can read a little Thai. I have to ask my mom...she's very good in writting Thai grammatically correctly.

Andrew · 13th January 2006, 01:16 PM

Thanks for the information, Pullo! Dan has been out of communication for a long time due to work commitments, and you have no idea how excited I am to have a Thai speaker on the forum.

Do you happen to know anyone who can read Burmese?

Titus Pullo · 14th January 2006, 10:00 PM

I'm sorry, but I don't know anybody that can read Burmese! Burmese and Thai languages are totally two different languages, eventhough we are close neighbor. And I'm really excited to be here, too! And...sorry for the late reply!

30th December 2004, 03:39 AM	#1
Philip Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: California Posts: 1,036	scabbard caught my eye The design of the fittings on the sheath of the "krabi" shown above is a dead-ringer to the scabbards on a type of Vietnamese saber called a "guom". Note the three metal fittings, with indented contours, the markedly tapering chape with a graceful upswept terminus, and the position of the upper suspension ring (very near the throat). All these features are in common with the scabbard of a typical "guom", which on better examples is mounted in embossed silver. The difference is mainly in material: Vietnamese scabbards are frequently of rosewood, delicately inlaid with MOP. Many guom have knucklebow guards, like this krabi, albeit of different contour and decorative treatment. I have always attributed the presence of knucklebow hilts in Vietnam to French influence, but after looking at some rather similar "parang nabur" hilts, I'm starting to broaden my outlook. Now that I see this Thai scabbard, I'm wondering even more. I plan on giving a talk on Vietnamese swords in Timonium this coming March, and will have a few examples of guom to show. 'Will look forward to discussing these points with you guys there.

30th December 2004, 06:03 AM	#2
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Foreign conotations Just as I was finishing this long post explaining the Thai language and alphabet and my conclusions, one of my buddy's a native Thai stopped in. Here's his explanation. He says "daab" is a low class term used for common warrior swords of a certain type and pointed to a picture of a dha. "Krabi" is a mid-class term used for the swords of officers of a certain type and then id'ed the sabers in my book. There is no high class term for sword, the sword itself will have a "name" as in "Andura the Flame of the West" (can you tell I did the Lord of the Rings marathon on Christmas) preceded by the word "prasang" which is used to identify any item of high class use. So daab/darb is dha krabi is an officer's saber And the swords of the upper class can be of any type, dha, krabi, or japanese but will have their own unique name. Philip, interesting note on the resemblance of Vietnamese sabers. Now that you mention it I did note the same type sabers held in old pictures of Vietnamese and Khmer royalty. I won't be able be at Timonium but maybe you could post it afterwards.

30th December 2004, 07:34 PM	#3
Radu Transylvanicus Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: 2008-2010 Bali, 1998-2008 USA Posts: 271	Krabi-krabong becomed now Dhabi-Dhabong ? Nobody Siamese corrected me when I reffered to the Thai sword ( the dha as we know it) used in this sport as ,,krabi,, ? Attached Images

30th December 2004, 11:27 PM	#4
wilked aka Khun Deng Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Oahu, Hawaii Posts: 166	Don't know why the contradiction in terms however I have my suspicions. Thai's love words that rhyme or have a jingle such as many of the sayings they have "Khrai kai kai gai ti kai" (who sell's chicken eggs at the camp) it all sounds like the same word when said fast and means nothing they just like to say it, another favorite of the Thai soldiers is "mia ma mia mee mia mi ma mia mi mee" (if my wife is with me I have a wife, if my wife isn't with me I don't have a wife) even the women crack up at this one -go figure. I think they used the term krabi just because it flows with krabong. I've now asked 5 Thai Nationals, 3 gave me the same explaination I have already passed on and drew pictures to verify the other two were unaware of any difference. I suspect this is probably the same case with many cultures while they know the word they don't know the varites implied by the word. I know many in America that could not tell you the difference between a saber and an a scimitar but they know they are both swords.

13th January 2006, 05:54 AM	#5
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	Being a Thai and knowing the modern Thai language, I know that Krabi refers to as to narrow double edge swords, or daab song kom meaning double edge swords...like the Chinese Jians. The term daab is used very loosely, I guess. But when they talk about big European swords, like the Vikings', they call them daab, also. My guess is it's probably because the big double ege swords can inflict serious wounds on someone like the Thai daabs. Officially, in the Thai language, I think krabi is a double edge sword big or small. I'm not that sure either because I spent all my time here in America, learning English--although, I can read a little Thai. I have to ask my mom...she's very good in writting Thai grammatically correctly.

13th January 2006, 01:16 PM	#6
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Thanks for the information, Pullo! Dan has been out of communication for a long time due to work commitments, and you have no idea how excited I am to have a Thai speaker on the forum. Do you happen to know anyone who can read Burmese?

14th January 2006, 10:00 PM	#7
Titus Pullo Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 123	I'm sorry, but I don't know anybody that can read Burmese! Burmese and Thai languages are totally two different languages, eventhough we are close neighbor. And I'm really excited to be here, too! And...sorry for the late reply!