Khyber Karbine?

rickystl · 29th September 2012, 08:07 PM

Hi Trenchwarfare. Now that is a very interesting gun. Looking only at the first photo, the first thought that came to mind was Cossack! - with the Circassian style stock. Of course further photos reveal that it is not. Generally, I am inclined to agree with Ibrahiim on this gun. Here are my observations:

Lock: A great example of a locally made/Kyber type lock replica. The mis-spelling of Tower and the crude attempt with the GR and Broad Arrow. And the more crudely made hammer. All hallmarks of the Kyber region local gun manufacture, as Ibrahiim mentioned. The lock does look original to the gun.

Stock: The stock looks like it was copied in the Circassian/Persian manner.

Barrel: Now this is the interesting part of the gun. Hmmmmm, this is a tough one. The barrel looks Persian/Indo Persian. The 13" length could mean that the barrel started it's life as a pistol. But NO. If that were true there would be no need for the rear sight arrangement. The cut down barrel theory is a real possibility. Though, as noted, the barrel decoration - and the swell - end correctly at the muzzle as if the barrel was made that way. If the barrel was shortened and re-worked, they certainly did a good job of it. The rear sight on this barrel make me believe this barrel started life with a longer length. Note also the decoration on the breech plug tang matches the rest of the barrel. The rear sight appears to be part of the breech plug. A long gun barrel this short would have no need for a rear sight arrangement like this.

I'm now beginning to lean towards Ibrahiim's theory that this gun was made for a young boy. One possible clue would be to measure the LOP (length of pull) from the trigger to the end of the butt stock. Although even adult sige long arms often have a LOP of only 11" - 12", reflecting the smaller stature of people in this region during the 19th Century. But it would be interesting to know that measurement if you would.
Additionally, if you have the opportunity, could you post photos of the trigger guard area, the muzzle/bore, and the end of the butt stock? Thanks.

Overall, I find this gun very interesting. A Kyber area made gun with a real mix of cultures and assembly. Thak you for Posting. Hope to see some additional photos. Rick.

AJ1356 · 30th September 2012, 03:54 AM

I have a few obsevations I am gonna throw out there regarding this item.
First as many has mentioned before, the lock is newly made, and crudely as well. From what I have gathered they are making these around Kabul area, mainly for sale for the tourist market and to poeple who have no idea what is what.
Second the barrel, to me it looks to be of original lenght, one really bad habbit poeple have, which pisses me off, is they scrape off gold from the engraved portions of the barrells, as it seems to have been done to this barrell. The forward barrell band seems to be new however.
I am not familiar with the stock design but the stock looks original as well, note the dents on the wood and the imprints of the original lock screws on the stock.
Final conclution, stock and barrel are original to each other, but the lock is new. This is something very common here. The locks get damaged or whatevere and or sold seperately and they just add a fake lock to the barrel and stock and sell it at a much cheaper price that they would a complete untouched item.

29th September 2012, 08:07 PM	#1
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,632	Hi Trenchwarfare. Now that is a very interesting gun. Looking only at the first photo, the first thought that came to mind was Cossack! - with the Circassian style stock. Of course further photos reveal that it is not. Generally, I am inclined to agree with Ibrahiim on this gun. Here are my observations: Lock: A great example of a locally made/Kyber type lock replica. The mis-spelling of Tower and the crude attempt with the GR and Broad Arrow. And the more crudely made hammer. All hallmarks of the Kyber region local gun manufacture, as Ibrahiim mentioned. The lock does look original to the gun. Stock: The stock looks like it was copied in the Circassian/Persian manner. Barrel: Now this is the interesting part of the gun. Hmmmmm, this is a tough one. The barrel looks Persian/Indo Persian. The 13" length could mean that the barrel started it's life as a pistol. But NO. If that were true there would be no need for the rear sight arrangement. The cut down barrel theory is a real possibility. Though, as noted, the barrel decoration - and the swell - end correctly at the muzzle as if the barrel was made that way. If the barrel was shortened and re-worked, they certainly did a good job of it. The rear sight on this barrel make me believe this barrel started life with a longer length. Note also the decoration on the breech plug tang matches the rest of the barrel. The rear sight appears to be part of the breech plug. A long gun barrel this short would have no need for a rear sight arrangement like this. I'm now beginning to lean towards Ibrahiim's theory that this gun was made for a young boy. One possible clue would be to measure the LOP (length of pull) from the trigger to the end of the butt stock. Although even adult sige long arms often have a LOP of only 11" - 12", reflecting the smaller stature of people in this region during the 19th Century. But it would be interesting to know that measurement if you would. Additionally, if you have the opportunity, could you post photos of the trigger guard area, the muzzle/bore, and the end of the butt stock? Thanks. Overall, I find this gun very interesting. A Kyber area made gun with a real mix of cultures and assembly. Thak you for Posting. Hope to see some additional photos. Rick.

30th September 2012, 03:54 AM	#2
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 317	I have a few obsevations I am gonna throw out there regarding this item. First as many has mentioned before, the lock is newly made, and crudely as well. From what I have gathered they are making these around Kabul area, mainly for sale for the tourist market and to poeple who have no idea what is what. Second the barrel, to me it looks to be of original lenght, one really bad habbit poeple have, which pisses me off, is they scrape off gold from the engraved portions of the barrells, as it seems to have been done to this barrell. The forward barrell band seems to be new however. I am not familiar with the stock design but the stock looks original as well, note the dents on the wood and the imprints of the original lock screws on the stock. Final conclution, stock and barrel are original to each other, but the lock is new. This is something very common here. The locks get damaged or whatevere and or sold seperately and they just add a fake lock to the barrel and stock and sell it at a much cheaper price that they would a complete untouched item.