Keris for comment

[Jean]

Originally Posted by David

Hi Jean. Generally when i refer to a keris (or keris dress) as Bali i also leave the door open for the Lombok possibility since for the most part the major influence on Lombok keris is Bali. However, i am curious what elements of this keris dress lead you to more specifically guess at Lombak and even more curious what specific elements of this blade lead you to think Sumbawa.

Hi David,
Alan gave an excellent and general reply, my guess is based on the following observations:
. The sheath and hilt are in rustic style, the sheath is short, and the rattan binder on the gandar looks rather from Lombok than Bali.
. Regarding the blade, I see Bugis Sumbawa features from the rustic shape and ganja style, the triangular pamor pattern (barely) visible at the base, the roughly applied pamor, and mostly the specific style of the kembang kacang and lambe gajah which look "carved out" from the gandik. I won't disclaim that this blade could be from Lombok also but in regional Bugis style.
Other opinions are welcome

[Jean]

Another Bali/ Lombok kris with a regional Bugis style blade with 15 luks, look at the kembang kacang and lambe gajah especially.
Regards

[Sajen]

I personally think that it is a village made keris from Lombok. I have seen some keris like this and own a keris with a similar blade. Will post pictures later.
Like Alan write are the influences from other islands are special on Lombok great.

Regards,

Detlef

[Jean]

Thank you Detlef and I will be very interested to see your similar blade.
Regards
Jean

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jean

Thank you Detlef and I will be very interested to see your similar blade.
Regards
Jean

Hello Jean,

I was referring to the keris from Fheng. The keris you have shown have indeed some affinity with a keris I own and was with some certain purchased on Sumbawa. When you like I can present pictures from this keris as well.

Best,

Detlef

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello Jean,

I was referring to the keris from Fheng. The keris you have shown have indeed some affinity with a keris I own and was with some certain purchased on Sumbawa. When you like I can present pictures from this keris as well.

Best,

Detlef

Hello Detlef,
Yes, please show us the pictures of your kris for reference and discussion.
And regarding the differentiation between the Bugis blades from Sumbawa or Lombok and those from Sulawesi, Riau Islands, and Malaysia, I am also very confused, may be Pak Hartadi could enlighten us about the subject?
Unfortunately there is nothing mentioned about it in the recent book "Senjata Pusaka Bugis".
Please also remind us the reference of the thread from Alan.
Regards
Jean

[Sajen]

Here at first pictures from my Lombok keris with similar blade. The contrast of the pamor is very low.

[David]

Originally Posted by Jean

Regarding the blade, I see Bugis Sumbawa features from the rustic shape and ganja style, the triangular pamor pattern (barely) visible at the base, the roughly applied pamor, and mostly the specific style of the kembang kacang and lambe gajah which look "carved out" from the gandik. I won't disclaim that this blade could be from Lombok also but in regional Bugis style.

Thanks for your response Jean. My question then is aren't these traits specific to Bugis keris in general? What am i trying to get at is what specifies a Sumbawa keris. I have seen all sorts of blade profiles presented on this forum as Sumbawa and have never seen us come to any kind of agreement as to what defines these blades that are supposed to be of this origin.
This is not to say that the blade is not Sumbawa, but i am trying to understand how i might be able to accurately identify such blades in the future and distinguish it from Bugis style blades from other regions.
I do agree with you sheath origin. Lombok was always on my radar.

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by David

This is not to say that the blade is not Sumbawa, but i am trying to understand how i might be able to accurately identify such blades in the future and distinguish it from Bugis style blades from other regions.

I think that this will be very very difficult, there is not to much written or known about keris from Sumbawa.
I have one keris where the seller (a member here as well) stated that it was purchased on Sumbawa. Alan once have written in a other thread how Sumbawa blades should look and this blade fit with this description.

Best,

Detlef