Help identifying kaskara

randallstorey · 20th September 2012, 08:44 PM

Thanks Jim. I was mistaken, Stone didnt say the date was stamped. He simply said 'dated and covered with inscriptions' which really doesnt explain where on the blade nor how the date was entered.

Do we not have any estimates of how many of these trade blades were being produced at this time then? As mine is '857' which I'll try to better photograph soon, I considered it might have been a lot of a thousand but wondered whether larger consignments were known or indeed whether a thousand was too large.

Jim McDougall · 21st September 2012, 04:30 AM

Hi Randall,
Thank you for your responses and interest, its good to see serious interest in weapons history and learning more on thier background. As I mentioned there were many small firms producing blades in Solingen primarily for larger well established ones after the 1870s. While many of these had the markings of major firms added, sometimes those of importers as well, these virtually unmarked blades with only stamped numbers are unlikely to be identified further in my opinion. There were severe losses in the kinds of records which might reveal more of this kind of detail during extensive bomb damage and fires in WWII, though some Solingen history remains through references published previous.
We very much wish there were better records on this statistical detail on blades going into North Africa, but mostly what is available is scattered information in narratives and informational publications from public service records during occupation. You might read the outstanding paper by Ed Hunley (1984) which is among those here on the forum on the edged weapons production in Kasalla.
Many of the early adventure and exploratory narratives of the early 19th century suggest seemingly exaggerated numbers of blades entering the trade routes in tens of thousands, an unlikely number. In one narrative of much later in the century suggests several thousand per year in one trade location. The main thing to remember is that these blades were literally handed down generation to generation, and well into the 20th century there were blades being refurbished which had been around for many decades, perhaps even over a century in some cases.

You are asking the right questions though, and honestly we have been trying to find this kind of data for many years, and Ive been at it a good many myself. We've come a long way, and if you'll review the threads on file here you'll find many discussions which will add some interesting details on these fascinating swords.

All best regards,
Jim

For some much better illustrations of these type blades in kaskaras with Islamic inscriptions a good reference is "Introduction to Islamic Arms", an outstanding book by the late Anthony North.

randallstorey · 21st September 2012, 08:26 AM

Perhaps I'm spoiled by the records available to medievalists and medieval Britain in particular. In addition to actual workshop accounts, contracts for provision of arms, purveyance etc, we can deduce army numbers and standards of arms requirements to make some informed guesses about quantities, qualities, economics and the impact on military and political organization. The upshot in this case being I have the sword in question!

I'll have a look at the works you've mentioned thank you very much, and this forum in itself is a trove.

Kind regards
Randall

20th September 2012, 08:44 PM	#1
randallstorey Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 15	Thanks Jim. I was mistaken, Stone didnt say the date was stamped. He simply said 'dated and covered with inscriptions' which really doesnt explain where on the blade nor how the date was entered. Do we not have any estimates of how many of these trade blades were being produced at this time then? As mine is '857' which I'll try to better photograph soon, I considered it might have been a lot of a thousand but wondered whether larger consignments were known or indeed whether a thousand was too large.

21st September 2012, 04:30 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Hi Randall, Thank you for your responses and interest, its good to see serious interest in weapons history and learning more on thier background. As I mentioned there were many small firms producing blades in Solingen primarily for larger well established ones after the 1870s. While many of these had the markings of major firms added, sometimes those of importers as well, these virtually unmarked blades with only stamped numbers are unlikely to be identified further in my opinion. There were severe losses in the kinds of records which might reveal more of this kind of detail during extensive bomb damage and fires in WWII, though some Solingen history remains through references published previous. We very much wish there were better records on this statistical detail on blades going into North Africa, but mostly what is available is scattered information in narratives and informational publications from public service records during occupation. You might read the outstanding paper by Ed Hunley (1984) which is among those here on the forum on the edged weapons production in Kasalla. Many of the early adventure and exploratory narratives of the early 19th century suggest seemingly exaggerated numbers of blades entering the trade routes in tens of thousands, an unlikely number. In one narrative of much later in the century suggests several thousand per year in one trade location. The main thing to remember is that these blades were literally handed down generation to generation, and well into the 20th century there were blades being refurbished which had been around for many decades, perhaps even over a century in some cases. You are asking the right questions though, and honestly we have been trying to find this kind of data for many years, and Ive been at it a good many myself. We've come a long way, and if you'll review the threads on file here you'll find many discussions which will add some interesting details on these fascinating swords. All best regards, Jim For some much better illustrations of these type blades in kaskaras with Islamic inscriptions a good reference is "Introduction to Islamic Arms", an outstanding book by the late Anthony North.

21st September 2012, 08:26 AM	#3
randallstorey Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 15	Perhaps I'm spoiled by the records available to medievalists and medieval Britain in particular. In addition to actual workshop accounts, contracts for provision of arms, purveyance etc, we can deduce army numbers and standards of arms requirements to make some informed guesses about quantities, qualities, economics and the impact on military and political organization. The upshot in this case being I have the sword in question! I'll have a look at the works you've mentioned thank you very much, and this forum in itself is a trove. Kind regards Randall