Dha for comments

fernando · 30th August 2012, 07:40 PM

Some arms collector from the neighborwood came around yesterday and left this example with me, for ID and comments.
Blade length 58 cms. Handle length 21 cms. Blade flat spine 8 m/m at forte and 2 m/m at tip. Weight 552 grams. The two outer sections and wirings of the handle cover are surely in silver and the central part in some 'braided' cord material that i am not able to identify.
I am not sure whether the handle interior is wood or bamboo, the orifice being either drilled or a natural hollow. Whatever secret contents that might having beeg hidden there, is gone

.
Please Gentlemen, what do i have here ... type, provenance, age ?

Ah, almost forgot to tell, the blade is very sharp, judging by my bleeding finger, whilst picture taking

.

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katana · 31st August 2012, 12:31 PM

Hi 'Nando,
surprised 'Dha boys' have not replied ..... I believe this type is Burmese....nice Dha

All the best
David

Andrew · 31st August 2012, 04:14 PM

Agreed--Burmese. Looks like early 20th century to me.

As for the handle material, 'Nando, can't really tell from that photo. My inclination is bamboo.

More specifically, I believe this sword is Kachin (Jingpaw) and related/derived from that ethnic group's dao:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kachin

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kachin

fernando · 31st August 2012, 06:46 PM

Thank you David,

Quote:

Originally Posted by katana

... surprised 'Dha boys' have not replied ...

Well, i guess Dha boys are like Mohicans ... there aren't many left

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fernando · 31st August 2012, 06:56 PM

Thank you so much for your qualified input, Andrew.

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I'll be busy digesting the contents of those links.
I would never guess that the handle material could be bamboo. The thickness of the braided 'strings' is so fine that my guess would go for some kind of (rope) thread

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Andrew · 31st August 2012, 08:04 PM

'Nando, I was referring to the hollow wood core of the handle as bamboo.

The woven textile grip could be any number of materials, including cotton, linen, coconut fiber, etc.

Andrew · 31st August 2012, 08:06 PM

Oh, and there was an older thread discussing these exact weapons in the context of a "link" between Kachin dao and Burmese dha...can't seem to locate it, but will post when/if I do.

Andrew · 31st August 2012, 08:10 PM

Found it.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kachin

fernando · 2nd September 2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

... I was referring to the hollow wood core of the handle as bamboo...

Sorry for my misinterpreting, Andrew

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Very hard (for me) to improve pictures. Looking again with a naked eye, there is too much texture in its profila to be wood. Also the hole is not concentric as that done with a drill. I will take for certain your inclination that it is bamboo.

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fernando · 2nd September 2012, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

Found it.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kachin

Grrreat stuff; thanks a million.

Sajen · 2nd September 2012, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Sorry for my misinterpreting, Andrew

.
Very hard (for me) to improve pictures. Looking again with a naked eye, there is too much texture in its profila to be wood. Also the hole is not concentric as that done with a drill. I will take for certain your inclination that it is bamboo.

.

Hello Fernando,

yes, agree with Andrew, it seems to be bamboo.

Regards,

Detlef

Henk · 2nd September 2012, 08:35 PM

It is bamboo. Structure of the wood, the hole and the end part of the hilt. 100%.

fernando · 2nd September 2012, 10:24 PM

Alright; bamboo it is

.

aiontay · 2nd September 2012, 10:38 PM

While I suspect it is Kachin, I'm not sure it would necesarrily be Jinghpaw.

Nathaniel · 3rd September 2012, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aiontay

While I suspect it is Kachin, I'm not sure it would necesarrily be Jinghpaw.

Same same yet different :-)

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jingpo_people

Nathaniel · 3rd September 2012, 07:34 AM

Nice dha by the way Fernado! I like the herring bone weave on the handle and the engraving on the handle is nicely done. Thanks for sharing!

fernando · 3rd September 2012, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aiontay

While I suspect it is Kachin, I'm not sure it would necesarrily be Jinghpaw.

Thanks; i will consider that

.

fernando · 3rd September 2012, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

Nice dha by the way Fernado! I like the herring bone weave on the handle and the engraving on the handle is nicely done. Thanks for sharing!

Thanks Nathaniel; for your words and for the Kachin girls link

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fernando · 3rd September 2012, 02:16 PM

Say guys:
Any chance this sword is earlier than 20th century ?
... The silver patination is influencing me to think about (even if late) 19th century

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Royston · 3rd September 2012, 03:44 PM

Hello Fernando

This is the end of the one I recently posted. As you can see, it is almost identical to yours except that mine has been plugged.

I am not convinced that it is bamboo as the the wall thickness is much greater than I would expect.

Regards
Roy

Andrew · 3rd September 2012, 04:17 PM

Royston, I am even more certain that your's is bamboo--that "cell-like" structure viewing it from the distal end is a dead-giveaway. Some bamboo is quite thick...

Andrew · 3rd September 2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Say guys:
Any chance this sword is earlier than 20th century ?
... The silver patination is influencing me to think about (even if late) 19th century

.

Possibly. My estimate was just that.

The distinction of late 19th vs. early 20th c. is largely one without a real difference.

BTW, silver patination can be a difficult thing to base age estimates on--some silver alloys can develop dark, heavy patination very quickly...

Rick · 3rd September 2012, 04:22 PM

There are types of bamboo that do not have a hollow core, so I would agree with Andrew .

Sajen · 3rd September 2012, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royston

I am not convinced that it is bamboo as the the wall thickness is much greater than I would expect.

Regards
Roy

Hello Roy,

have a look here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4093

Best regards,

Detlef

Ferguson · 3rd September 2012, 04:38 PM

I have never seen thick walled bamboo like that. But I started Googling thick walled bamboo and found that it is common. Certain varieties like Bambusa burmanica (found in Thailand and Burma) have very thick walls. It's amazing how our interest in ethnographic weapons leads us into other areas!

Steve

Royston · 3rd September 2012, 05:40 PM

OK Gents

I stand corrected on the wall thicknesses of bamboo. I'm too used to seeing the thin-walled types that we get here in the UK.

Detlef, your link appears to be about coconut, not bamboo. ( Nice pictures though )

Regards
Roy

fernando · 3rd September 2012, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

... It's amazing how our interest in ethnographic weapons leads us into other areas!...

Absolutely.
I often tell people that a large (largest?) part of my present (insignificant) knowledge is due to arms collecting side efects.
... The launching base being this forum

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Sajen · 3rd September 2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royston

Detlef, your link appears to be about coconut, not bamboo. ( Nice pictures though )

Regards
Roy

Oh, yes, my mistake!

Remembered the structure which is very similar. Better I don't post just after wake up!

fernando · 3rd September 2012, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

...The distinction of late 19th vs. early 20th c. is largely one without a real difference...

In a mere counting way yes, you're right; but in certain other aspects ... means a lot

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

... BTW, silver patination can be a difficult thing to base age estimates on--some silver alloys can develop dark, heavy patination very quickly...

Sure thing; duly noted

.

lordkoos · 3rd September 2012, 07:04 PM

The woven part of the handle would be rattan, ie shredded palm leaf, some varieties produce very strong fibers.

30th August 2012, 07:40 PM	#1
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Dha for comments Some arms collector from the neighborwood came around yesterday and left this example with me, for ID and comments. Blade length 58 cms. Handle length 21 cms. Blade flat spine 8 m/m at forte and 2 m/m at tip. Weight 552 grams. The two outer sections and wirings of the handle cover are surely in silver and the central part in some 'braided' cord material that i am not able to identify. I am not sure whether the handle interior is wood or bamboo, the orifice being either drilled or a natural hollow. Whatever secret contents that might having beeg hidden there, is gone . Please Gentlemen, what do i have here ... type, provenance, age ? Ah, almost forgot to tell, the blade is very sharp, judging by my bleeding finger, whilst picture taking . . Attached Images Last edited by fernando; 30th August 2012 at 07:54 PM.

3rd September 2012, 03:44 PM	#20
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	Pommel Hello Fernando This is the end of the one I recently posted. As you can see, it is almost identical to yours except that mine has been plugged. I am not convinced that it is bamboo as the the wall thickness is much greater than I would expect. Regards Roy Attached Images

31st August 2012, 12:31 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi 'Nando, surprised 'Dha boys' have not replied ..... I believe this type is Burmese....nice Dha All the best David

31st August 2012, 04:14 PM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Agreed--Burmese. Looks like early 20th century to me. As for the handle material, 'Nando, can't really tell from that photo. My inclination is bamboo. More specifically, I believe this sword is Kachin (Jingpaw) and related/derived from that ethnic group's dao: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kachin http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kachin

31st August 2012, 06:56 PM	#5
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Thank you so much for your qualified input, Andrew. . I'll be busy digesting the contents of those links. I would never guess that the handle material could be bamboo. The thickness of the braided 'strings' is so fine that my guess would go for some kind of (rope) thread .

31st August 2012, 08:04 PM	#6
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	'Nando, I was referring to the hollow wood core of the handle as bamboo. The woven textile grip could be any number of materials, including cotton, linen, coconut fiber, etc.

31st August 2012, 08:06 PM	#7
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Oh, and there was an older thread discussing these exact weapons in the context of a "link" between Kachin dao and Burmese dha...can't seem to locate it, but will post when/if I do.

31st August 2012, 08:10 PM	#8
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Found it. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=kachin

2nd September 2012, 08:35 PM	#12
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	It is bamboo. Structure of the wood, the hole and the end part of the hilt. 100%.

2nd September 2012, 10:24 PM	#13
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Alright; bamboo it is .

2nd September 2012, 10:38 PM	#14
aiontay Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 88	While I suspect it is Kachin, I'm not sure it would necesarrily be Jinghpaw.

3rd September 2012, 07:34 AM	#16
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Nice dha by the way Fernado! I like the herring bone weave on the handle and the engraving on the handle is nicely done. Thanks for sharing!

3rd September 2012, 02:16 PM	#19
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Say guys: Any chance this sword is earlier than 20th century ? ... The silver patination is influencing me to think about (even if late) 19th century .

3rd September 2012, 04:17 PM	#21
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Royston, I am even more certain that your's is bamboo--that "cell-like" structure viewing it from the distal end is a dead-giveaway. Some bamboo is quite thick...

3rd September 2012, 04:22 PM	#23
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	There are types of bamboo that do not have a hollow core, so I would agree with Andrew .

3rd September 2012, 04:38 PM	#25
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	I have never seen thick walled bamboo like that. But I started Googling thick walled bamboo and found that it is common. Certain varieties like Bambusa burmanica (found in Thailand and Burma) have very thick walls. It's amazing how our interest in ethnographic weapons leads us into other areas! Steve

3rd September 2012, 05:40 PM	#26
Royston Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Poole England Posts: 443	OK Gents I stand corrected on the wall thicknesses of bamboo. I'm too used to seeing the thin-walled types that we get here in the UK. Detlef, your link appears to be about coconut, not bamboo. ( Nice pictures though ) Regards Roy

3rd September 2012, 07:04 PM	#30
lordkoos Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Posts: 22	The woven part of the handle would be rattan, ie shredded palm leaf, some varieties produce very strong fibers.