Staying on the Japanese Theme: Japanese Trade Blades in SE Asia

DhaDha · 22nd August 2012, 10:06 PM

Hey Emanuel, glad you were talking about this one

You do remember correctly. Pretty nimble for such a large piece. Glad you liked it.

laEspadaAncha, these are often attributed to the Ayutthaya Period (1350-1767). But I've seen them come from right up to the 1800s as well. I'd say this this one is on the older side of what I've handled and seen. Around 1680-1700? Hard to say though. By the way, they also exist with Chinese-styled blades. But still sporting the Japanese styled hilts, and SEA fittings. Pretty cool.

Andrew · 22nd August 2012, 10:29 PM

Outstanding sword, DhaDha! Thanks for sharing it.

Based on the repousse work and blade markings, however, I would place the age of your sword a bit later than the Ayutthaya period and would lean more towards the late 18th/early 19th century (Rattanakosin period). Many pieces from this period evoke or are in a "revival" of Ayutthaya design.

Here is an example from my collection with similar silver work dating to the early 19th C.:

Andrew · 22nd August 2012, 10:33 PM

The few, true, surviving Ayutthaya period swords I have handled have iron fittings, often with gold and/or silver koftgari and more...delicate (?) and refined blades and workmanship. An Ayutthaya sword from my collection:

DhaDha · 22nd August 2012, 11:31 PM

Great swords! Really.
This is why i try not to go on record dating these things. My own opinion changes often. That said, I do feel this one be older than that estimation. But maybe a bit younger than mine. There is at least one example in the National Museum in Bangkok with a Japanese-styled silver handle attributed to the Ayutthaya period. With so many different styles of swords worn by so my different groups, I have a hard time with hard rules...

Andrew · 23rd August 2012, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DhaDha

Great swords! Really.
This is why i try not to go on record dating these things. My own opinion changes often. That said, I do feel this one be older than that estimation. But maybe a bit younger than mine. There is at least one example in the National Museum in Bangkok with a Japanese-styled silver handle attributed to the Ayutthaya period. With so many different styles of swords worn by so my different groups, I have a hard time with hard rules...

Thanks.

Can't really argue with you too strenuously--my opinions on these change as well, and truly old Thai swords with reliable, documented provenance are scarce.

I will observe, however, that rattan (and other similar organic materials) like that on the handle of the top sword, does not generally survive in such good condition on swords that are 300+ years old...

Nathaniel · 23rd August 2012, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew

The few, true, surviving Ayutthaya period swords I have handled have iron fittings, often with gold and/or silver koftgari and more...delicate (?) and refined blades and workmanship. An Ayutthaya sword from my collection:

Andrew, breath taking piece...never get tired of seeing this one...fantastic condition.

Andrew · 23rd August 2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nathaniel

Andrew, breath taking piece...never get tired of seeing this one...fantastic condition.

Thanks, Nathaniel.

22nd August 2012, 10:29 PM	#2
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Outstanding sword, DhaDha! Thanks for sharing it. Based on the repousse work and blade markings, however, I would place the age of your sword a bit later than the Ayutthaya period and would lean more towards the late 18th/early 19th century (Rattanakosin period). Many pieces from this period evoke or are in a "revival" of Ayutthaya design. Here is an example from my collection with similar silver work dating to the early 19th C.: Attached Images

22nd August 2012, 10:33 PM	#3
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	The few, true, surviving Ayutthaya period swords I have handled have iron fittings, often with gold and/or silver koftgari and more...delicate (?) and refined blades and workmanship. An Ayutthaya sword from my collection: Attached Images

22nd August 2012, 11:31 PM	#4
DhaDha Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 176	Great swords! Really. This is why i try not to go on record dating these things. My own opinion changes often. That said, I do feel this one be older than that estimation. But maybe a bit younger than mine. There is at least one example in the National Museum in Bangkok with a Japanese-styled silver handle attributed to the Ayutthaya period. With so many different styles of swords worn by so my different groups, I have a hard time with hard rules... Attached Images

22nd August 2012, 10:06 PM	#1
DhaDha Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 176	Hey Emanuel, glad you were talking about this one You do remember correctly. Pretty nimble for such a large piece. Glad you liked it. laEspadaAncha, these are often attributed to the Ayutthaya Period (1350-1767). But I've seen them come from right up to the 1800s as well. I'd say this this one is on the older side of what I've handled and seen. Around 1680-1700? Hard to say though. By the way, they also exist with Chinese-styled blades. But still sporting the Japanese styled hilts, and SEA fittings. Pretty cool.