Armour?

rasdan · 11th September 2005, 07:01 AM

Hi all,

While we are on this topic, i am curious. How does the moro attach the hinges of their armour? Is there an extra middle plate inside the armour that holds that thing that holds the armour lock? The attched picture shows a picture of a bugis armour which is strikingly similar to the moro ones. It is donated by a man of bugis descendants in Muar, Johor in 1924 to a museum in KL.

Alam Shah · 11th September 2005, 10:43 AM

Hi Rasdan,

It is locked into position by 2 metal plates which secure the left and right plates together. One for the top and another for the bottom. See links for examples.
Simple locking mechanism.
http://www.eriksedge.com/PH116.jpg

Another variation used by Datuks.
http://home.earthlink.net/~federicom.../MoroArmor.jpg

rasdan · 11th September 2005, 11:16 AM

Hi Shah,

What i meant is, how the 'rod' for the lock is fixed. In this following picture, we can see that the plates are made of horn, and the 'rod' is brass. How does the brass 'rod' fixed onto the horn plate? I suspect the horn only has holes for the 'rod' and the 'rod' was made separately and welded onto a piece of centre brass plate inside the armour and then fixed with the lock. The extra inner middle plate also can protect the body if the thrust goes directly in the middle of the chest plates. (Just my opinion). We can see the missing 'rod' from the second picture below. Can anybody clear this up?

Thanks,
Rasdan

Aqtai · 11th September 2005, 12:14 PM

I knew I had seen a picture of vambraces similar to the ones you made somewhere. This pic is from G.C. Stones venerable and somewhat outdated "Glossary of the Construction, Decoration, and Use of Arms and Armor in All Countries and in All Times". Unfortunately Stone doesn't mention when these vambraces were made and in what part of India where they used.

This picture is also from the same book, surprisingly it's the only picture I have that shows the back of a krug:

Alam Shah · 11th September 2005, 12:45 PM

Rasdan,

The rings may be a modification, for a quick easy release mechanism.

rasdan · 12th September 2005, 04:03 AM

Ic, thanks Shah

Hi Ahriman,

Love your work on the plates. Finishing the armour would give more or less same muscle built as the one on the plates.

Ahriman · 13th September 2005, 04:06 PM

Thanks!

(((Then buy some

)))
Nice pictures, thanks again! I know that most of you are familiar with these... but I couldn't find them earlier... And it's a good thing to have them in one place, isn't it? (((This means: post even more!!!

)))
I was thinking. Would it be possible to make a modified krug? I mean, I like it, I have made one already, but I'd prefer a smaller disc, and a bit higher, so it could cover the solar plexus. Um, it'd look almost like a zertsalo, just with m&p construction. So, full circle: would it be "authentic"? (If it was hard to understand, I can post a drawing.)

Vambraces: nice, but I still lack the full metacarpal. Is it because it's my modern idiotism, or it was rare, or what..?

Arm sizes: it'd be OK if it would be to scale. I mean, hand smaller, arms smaller, ok, but the proportions are still not ok. My wrist circumference is 18cm, and my lower arm circumference at the thickest is more than 42cm. Now, I wasn't training for a long time, I'm not a regular archer, I prefer two-handed weapons, and still... I simply can't believe that a full-time warrior can have such a tiny arm. Even the most flaring vambrace on the pics have about 1/1.5=1,666 wrist/thick area ratio, while 42/18=2,333, and it's AFTER the non-training period.

One thing occured to me though: isn't it possible that these were the possessions of the upper classes, and were mostly decorative? I mean, if it has silver on it, repousse, etc, it's not likely that it's owner was a full-time fighter, who don't care much for politics. Or am I, again, and idiot?

11th September 2005, 07:01 AM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi all, While we are on this topic, i am curious. How does the moro attach the hinges of their armour? Is there an extra middle plate inside the armour that holds that thing that holds the armour lock? The attched picture shows a picture of a bugis armour which is strikingly similar to the moro ones. It is donated by a man of bugis descendants in Muar, Johor in 1924 to a museum in KL. Attached Images

11th September 2005, 11:16 AM	#3
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi Shah, What i meant is, how the 'rod' for the lock is fixed. In this following picture, we can see that the plates are made of horn, and the 'rod' is brass. How does the brass 'rod' fixed onto the horn plate? I suspect the horn only has holes for the 'rod' and the 'rod' was made separately and welded onto a piece of centre brass plate inside the armour and then fixed with the lock. The extra inner middle plate also can protect the body if the thrust goes directly in the middle of the chest plates. (Just my opinion). We can see the missing 'rod' from the second picture below. Can anybody clear this up? Thanks, Rasdan Attached Images

11th September 2005, 10:43 AM	#2
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Hi Rasdan, It is locked into position by 2 metal plates which secure the left and right plates together. One for the top and another for the bottom. See links for examples. Simple locking mechanism. http://www.eriksedge.com/PH116.jpg Another variation used by Datuks. http://home.earthlink.net/~federicom.../MoroArmor.jpg

11th September 2005, 12:14 PM	#4
Aqtai Member Join Date: May 2005 Location: Merseyside, UK Posts: 222	I knew I had seen a picture of vambraces similar to the ones you made somewhere. This pic is from G.C. Stones venerable and somewhat outdated "Glossary of the Construction, Decoration, and Use of Arms and Armor in All Countries and in All Times". Unfortunately Stone doesn't mention when these vambraces were made and in what part of India where they used. This picture is also from the same book, surprisingly it's the only picture I have that shows the back of a krug:

11th September 2005, 12:45 PM	#5
Alam Shah Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,248	Rasdan, The rings may be a modification, for a quick easy release mechanism.

12th September 2005, 04:03 AM	#6
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Ic, thanks Shah Hi Ahriman, Love your work on the plates. Finishing the armour would give more or less same muscle built as the one on the plates.

13th September 2005, 04:06 PM	#7
Ahriman Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Hungary Posts: 72	Thanks! (((Then buy some ))) Nice pictures, thanks again! I know that most of you are familiar with these... but I couldn't find them earlier... And it's a good thing to have them in one place, isn't it? (((This means: post even more!!! ))) I was thinking. Would it be possible to make a modified krug? I mean, I like it, I have made one already, but I'd prefer a smaller disc, and a bit higher, so it could cover the solar plexus. Um, it'd look almost like a zertsalo, just with m&p construction. So, full circle: would it be "authentic"? (If it was hard to understand, I can post a drawing.) Vambraces: nice, but I still lack the full metacarpal. Is it because it's my modern idiotism, or it was rare, or what..? Arm sizes: it'd be OK if it would be to scale. I mean, hand smaller, arms smaller, ok, but the proportions are still not ok. My wrist circumference is 18cm, and my lower arm circumference at the thickest is more than 42cm. Now, I wasn't training for a long time, I'm not a regular archer, I prefer two-handed weapons, and still... I simply can't believe that a full-time warrior can have such a tiny arm. Even the most flaring vambrace on the pics have about 1/1.5=1,666 wrist/thick area ratio, while 42/18=2,333, and it's AFTER the non-training period. One thing occured to me though: isn't it possible that these were the possessions of the upper classes, and were mostly decorative? I mean, if it has silver on it, repousse, etc, it's not likely that it's owner was a full-time fighter, who don't care much for politics. Or am I, again, and idiot?