keris & handle for comments

kai · 9th August 2012, 12:18 AM

Hello Eric,

Welcome to our forum!

The bone hilt seems to be from Bali; not that old (post-WW2) and was never fitted on a keris.

The keris as well as its fittings seem to be from Madura. The hilt does look village-made and post-WW2 to me; I'd guess that the blade is older but it's certainly wise to be cautious in the absence of safe indicators of age as suggested by Alan:
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=66

Regards,
Kai

Gustav · 9th August 2012, 01:07 AM

Regarding the blade, that is what Alan probably would call a ghost of a blade: there is merely a slorok left of it, with residual traces of pamor material.

Looking at how the blumbangan is made it was not so bad.

The following is of course naive, yet I always imagined, a Pusaka of common village people could look somehow like this (see also the last pictures in van Duurens publication of Gronemans book).

Eric · 12th August 2012, 04:03 PM

Thanks to Kai and Gustav for the comments. Can anybody point me to a good web address for keris terminology?

sirek · 12th August 2012, 06:59 PM

some that I like:

http://old.blades.free.fr/keris/intr...kerisparts.htm
http://blade.japet.com/KRISS/KERIS.htm
http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/PBXIIempus.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=NL&hl=nl&v=aAjwWIrZyyw

David · 12th August 2012, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

Thanks to Kai and Gustav for the comments. Can anybody point me to a good web address for keris terminology?

Keep in mind Eric, that when you ask such a question, keris terminology somewhat changes from island to island. Collectors have a habit of defaulting to Javanese terminology, but that isn't correct for, say, Malay Peninsula blades.

A. G. Maisey · 12th August 2012, 11:21 PM

What David has said about terminology is correct:- the names used for keris and keris related items vary from place to place, not only from country to country, island to island, town to town, but from one side of the street to the other, and from one person to another, depending upon hierarchical position in the particular societal group.

However, the centre of keris culture is the Jawa/Bali nexus, and the terminology used in Central Jawa has increasingly dominated the terminology used in other places, very probably because the culture of the keris in Jawa never really died during the WWII period, and its full resurgence in the period after WWII occurred earlier than in other places.

The keris as we know it now originated in Jawa, from Jawa it went to Bali where it has preserved its cultural identity until today. It also spread to other parts of S.E.Asia, where its identity tends to reflect the way in which it may have entered the particular society.In its place of origin, Jawa, it has changed its nature in accordance with sociological conditions, thus what we now see in Jawa is not what the keris was in Jawa prior to the Islamisation of Jawa. The original nature of the keris is better reflected in its position in Balinese society.

What I have written here is more than you asked for Eric, but in my opinion a small amount of basic knowledge is required before any attempts at an increase in knowledge can have any use or meaning.

Here are links to two pages which will provide you with a basic source upon which you can begin to build an understanding of the keris.

This link will take you to a glossary:-

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerisglossary.html

This link will take you to a page that contains a reading list and a few other useful links:-

http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerisinformation.html

kai · 13th August 2012, 10:25 AM

Hello Eric,

I was also going to recommend Alan's glossary as a starting point; it's a fairly select choice of keris terminology though.

Rather than a general internet search and doing a lot of desperately needed cross-checking, I'd also suggest that in many cases a search on this keris forum will yield more corroborated and up-to-date information on a given word (including possible alternate spellings). It is also worth trying the search on the main forum, too, since many old threads from the days before the warung kopi are still found over there. You can also search the archived fora (some of these old discussions are somewhat dated already while others are found in the forum's best-of collection: classics .

Regards,
Kai

David · 13th August 2012, 05:35 PM

I might also suggest that while it is nice to know keris terms, in most cases i personally prefer to use English words where possible. So i am much more likely to use words like hilt, sheath and blade as opposed to jejeran, wrongko or wilah when writing/speaking about parts of the keris. Some features such of the gonjo don't have good English counterparts that can be use to communicate what we might be referring to so it is good to know these terms.

9th August 2012, 01:07 AM	#2
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,295	Regarding the blade, that is what Alan probably would call a ghost of a blade: there is merely a slorok left of it, with residual traces of pamor material. Looking at how the blumbangan is made it was not so bad. The following is of course naive, yet I always imagined, a Pusaka of common village people could look somehow like this (see also the last pictures in van Duurens publication of Gronemans book). Last edited by Gustav; 9th August 2012 at 01:20 AM.

9th August 2012, 12:18 AM	#1
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Eric, Welcome to our forum! The bone hilt seems to be from Bali; not that old (post-WW2) and was never fitted on a keris. The keris as well as its fittings seem to be from Madura. The hilt does look village-made and post-WW2 to me; I'd guess that the blade is older but it's certainly wise to be cautious in the absence of safe indicators of age as suggested by Alan: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showpo...7&postcount=66 Regards, Kai

12th August 2012, 04:03 PM	#3
Eric Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Vienna, Austria Posts: 3	Thanks to Kai and Gustav for the comments. Can anybody point me to a good web address for keris terminology?

12th August 2012, 06:59 PM	#4
sirek Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 171	some that I like: http://old.blades.free.fr/keris/intr...kerisparts.htm http://blade.japet.com/KRISS/KERIS.htm http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/PBXIIempus.html http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=NL&hl=nl&v=aAjwWIrZyyw

12th August 2012, 11:21 PM	#6
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	What David has said about terminology is correct:- the names used for keris and keris related items vary from place to place, not only from country to country, island to island, town to town, but from one side of the street to the other, and from one person to another, depending upon hierarchical position in the particular societal group. However, the centre of keris culture is the Jawa/Bali nexus, and the terminology used in Central Jawa has increasingly dominated the terminology used in other places, very probably because the culture of the keris in Jawa never really died during the WWII period, and its full resurgence in the period after WWII occurred earlier than in other places. The keris as we know it now originated in Jawa, from Jawa it went to Bali where it has preserved its cultural identity until today. It also spread to other parts of S.E.Asia, where its identity tends to reflect the way in which it may have entered the particular society.In its place of origin, Jawa, it has changed its nature in accordance with sociological conditions, thus what we now see in Jawa is not what the keris was in Jawa prior to the Islamisation of Jawa. The original nature of the keris is better reflected in its position in Balinese society. What I have written here is more than you asked for Eric, but in my opinion a small amount of basic knowledge is required before any attempts at an increase in knowledge can have any use or meaning. Here are links to two pages which will provide you with a basic source upon which you can begin to build an understanding of the keris. This link will take you to a glossary:- http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerisglossary.html This link will take you to a page that contains a reading list and a few other useful links:- http://www.kerisattosanaji.com/kerisinformation.html

13th August 2012, 10:25 AM	#7
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Eric, I was also going to recommend Alan's glossary as a starting point; it's a fairly select choice of keris terminology though. Rather than a general internet search and doing a lot of desperately needed cross-checking, I'd also suggest that in many cases a search on this keris forum will yield more corroborated and up-to-date information on a given word (including possible alternate spellings). It is also worth trying the search on the main forum, too, since many old threads from the days before the warung kopi are still found over there. You can also search the archived fora (some of these old discussions are somewhat dated already while others are found in the forum's best-of collection: classics . Regards, Kai

13th August 2012, 05:35 PM	#8
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,233	I might also suggest that while it is nice to know keris terms, in most cases i personally prefer to use English words where possible. So i am much more likely to use words like hilt, sheath and blade as opposed to jejeran, wrongko or wilah when writing/speaking about parts of the keris. Some features such of the gonjo don't have good English counterparts that can be use to communicate what we might be referring to so it is good to know these terms.