Large Junggayan Kris

[Battara]

There is always the possibility of a trade blade since trade was common.

I will recheck and consider the points you make.

[Battara]

I have re-examined the "elephant" section of the ganga on this sword and it has a slight elliptical form to it even though the lines beneath it are straight. According to Cato this makes it more of a Maguindanao rather than a Maranao blade.

However there is a style that is not mentioned in Cato that I have noticed in documented pieces and pieces that in scabbard form (according to Cato) are Maguindanao. This form is what I call the "eagle" form and is distinct from the "elephant" form (note: there are a number of details and things that not mentioned in Cato, for example, gunongs).

Here are some pictures of 2 Maguindanao pieces - notice the the "eagle" form of which I speak. I also had another one like the silver hilted one with a nearly identical back and front of the ganga that was brought back from a GI when he was in Maguindanao country in WWII (I will admit that my piece on top does look a little more Maranao than the other one).

[Spunjer]

never was a big fan of categorizing these blades; it makes everything static. there's just too many variations to make a conclusion that a particular elephant's head and trunk design is a surefire indicator of what tribe the kris came from. what everyone seems to forget is that these were mere hypothesis put forth by cato, nothing concrete. but for the sake of this thread:
here's a close up of that silver pommeled kris, and based on cato's classification this is suppose to be Maguindanao. i believe this is what he meant by elliptical...

[Spunjer]

now let's compare that with a junggayan pommeled kris with the same elephant's head and trunk design

("The Maguindanao style, like the Sulu, exhibits an elliptical elephant's mouth that is still somewhat pointed on the innermost end.")

per Jazz's post:

[Spunjer]

Jose, you mentioned:

The documented Maranao blades I have seen do have some "jutting" out of the bottom of the ganga, but the "elephant" section of the ganga does not have an "eye" and are a little larger, whereas the documented Maguindanao ones I have seen have an "eye" and do not stand as tall as the Maranao and the top of the "trunk" has deeper cuts than those of the Maranao.

so here's a junggayan that has the jutting jaw,and to top it all, it doesn't have an eye. now if we go by cato's classification once again this particular kris is a classic Maranao, and the one above is Maguindanao. incidentally the so called Maranao is much larger than the Maguindanao.

[ThePepperSkull]

Admit it Ron, you just wanted to show your beautiful kris off

[Rick]

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Admit it Ron, you just wanted to show your beautiful kris off

Yeah, Ron ..

Anyway, I was wondering about the cohesiveness of the Mindanao and the Sulu Moro groups over the centuries .

I'm somewhat aware of the Iranun role as slavers for Sulu, still; would most blades be exchanged through trade or capture ?

Is this something we can only guess at ?

[David]

Originally Posted by Spunjer

Jose, you mentioned:

so here's a junggayan that has the jutting jaw,and to top it all, it doesn't have an eye. now if we go by cato's classification once again this particular kris is a classic Maranao, and the one above is Maguindanao. incidentally the so called Maranao is much larger than the Maguindanao.

And this is a very apt example for this thread because this is another nice restoration with that entire tail section newly carved and added on to complete this junggayan. A great job there.