Large Junggayan Kris

[VANDOO]

I WAS ALONG WHEN THIS WAS AQUIRED AND AM HAPPY TO SEE SUCH A FINE RESTORATION. NOW SHE IS ALL DECKED OUT AND IN A GOOD HOME.

[Jazz]

I have to say that that is a beautiful kris, Battara! Maybe one day I will own one likr that.
What about the possibility that those documented blades you have seen were traded blades?

I'm re-reading Cato's book, and hereare his descriptions:

Maranao:

"The type that is distinctly Maranao begins with an elongated trunk. The mouth cavity, while still present, is quite narrow, and the lower jaw runs parallel to the guard. While the Sulu, Maguindanao and crossover forms of elephant's head/trunk motif display concave cavities beneath the lower jaw, the Maranao configuration does not. Instead a substantial protrusion juts out from beneath it."

here's the Maguindanao description:

"The type that is uniquely Maguindanao is similar to the Sulu version, to the point of being easily mistaken for it"

and this:

"The Maguindanao style, like the Sulu, exhibits an elliptical elephant's mouth that is still somewhat pointed on the innermost end."

Also, nowhere in the book does it says the Maranaos did not use these type of hilts, but rather, "Flamboyant junggayan-type were not popular with the Maranaos... the pommels of their ceremonial krises were generally confined to the standard kakatua profile." I would take this statement that there's a possibility the Maranaos did use these type of pommel on their Ceremonial krises.

Not trying to be in disagreement, Battara, just confused on how these krises are classified. On some threads, whenever it doesn't fit Cato's classification, it's classified as "traded".

[Sajen]

Hello Jose,

have the same thoughts as Jazz!

Regards,

Detlef

[CCUAL]

Check Cato's book. If not mistaken 1st or 2nd page ivory junggayan kris and barong. A good example of seems to be of Maranao blade from Dave and Lonna's collections.

[Battara]

There is always the possibility of a trade blade since trade was common.

I will recheck and consider the points you make.

[Battara]

I have re-examined the "elephant" section of the ganga on this sword and it has a slight elliptical form to it even though the lines beneath it are straight. According to Cato this makes it more of a Maguindanao rather than a Maranao blade.

However there is a style that is not mentioned in Cato that I have noticed in documented pieces and pieces that in scabbard form (according to Cato) are Maguindanao. This form is what I call the "eagle" form and is distinct from the "elephant" form (note: there are a number of details and things that not mentioned in Cato, for example, gunongs).

Here are some pictures of 2 Maguindanao pieces - notice the the "eagle" form of which I speak. I also had another one like the silver hilted one with a nearly identical back and front of the ganga that was brought back from a GI when he was in Maguindanao country in WWII (I will admit that my piece on top does look a little more Maranao than the other one).

[Spunjer]

never was a big fan of categorizing these blades; it makes everything static. there's just too many variations to make a conclusion that a particular elephant's head and trunk design is a surefire indicator of what tribe the kris came from. what everyone seems to forget is that these were mere hypothesis put forth by cato, nothing concrete. but for the sake of this thread:
here's a close up of that silver pommeled kris, and based on cato's classification this is suppose to be Maguindanao. i believe this is what he meant by elliptical...