A gamble, your opinion?

GIO · 1st August 2012, 06:30 PM

It is only my personal opinion, but I think the range of designs is rather big, and can be modified to a certain extent according to the taste of the maker.
It could be like the designs on the embossed pendoks: they follow certain base standards, but can be adapted to the maker's taste.

David · 1st August 2012, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

It is only my personal opinion, but I think the range of designs is rather big, and can be modified to a certain extent according to the taste of the maker.
It could be like the designs on the embossed pendoks: they follow certain base standards, but can be adapted to the maker's taste.

Gio, are you talking about traditional kinatah here or kinatah-like ornamentation?

A. G. Maisey · 1st August 2012, 11:49 PM

What I can remember about kinatah, without going back to my notebooks is this:-

following the Pati rebellion against Mataram and the victory of Mataram over Pati, kinatah was awarded to the various officers in the military forces:- a penewu was accorded a singo- gajah gonjo, a bupati kliwon was accorded kinatah kamarogan, a bupati dalem and a pangeran were accorded kinatah anggrek, singo barong and nogo.

Pati rebelled in 1617.

There are four types of kinatah kamarogan:- ranting, daun, bunga, buah. Bupatis are entitled to wear these motifs.

The family of a bupati dalem is entitled to kinatah anggrek, singo barong and manglar mongo.

Prior to the Pati expedition singo - gajah kinatah did not exist.

What I have written above refers to the Karaton Surakarta Hadiningrat. Other kratons may have different rules and different traditions.

Originally kinatah work was the prerogative of a ruler to award as recognition of honour, similar to the way we give medals and awards to people now --- in May this year Bob Dylan received the Medal of Freedom, USA's highest civilian honour, if Bobby Boy had lived in Mataram his keris probably would have received a kinatah award instead. That's the way it worked. Don't forget:- the keris is the symbol of the man:- honour the keris, you honour the man.

Since these kinatah awards were handed out by rulers, they needed to follow very strict rules that incorporated symbolism. It wasn't a haphazard daubing of gold, the kinatah motifs had meaning --- for instance, the singo barong is associated with warriors, just as the lion is associated with warriors in Hindu symbolism.

But all this went down the tubes when the kratons lost their power under Dutch colonial rule, and rich people outside the kraton decided it was OK to give themselves kinatah awards.

Jussi M. · 2nd August 2012, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Since these kinatah awards were handed out by rulers, they needed to follow very strict rules that incorporated symbolism. It wasn't a haphazard daubing of gold, the kinatah motifs had meaning (...)

But all this went down the tubes when the kratons lost their power under Dutch colonial rule, and rich people outside the kraton decided it was OK to give themselves kinatah awards.

GIO · 2nd August 2012, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Gio, are you talking about traditional kinatah here or kinatah-like ornamentation?

Hi David,
I am talking about traditional kinatah.
I have seen (in books and museums) so many and different designs that it would be difficult for me to immagine that a kind of code may exist.
On the other hand I must recognize that a number of examples show (mainly on the ganja) that certain designs have been followed. I refer mainly to the designs of leaves and/or flowers, which, though different, follow an almost identical base design.
I do have a few specimens which have kinatah on the ganja only, on part of the blade or on the whole blade, but my poor culture on keris does not allow me to compress all designs in a number of rules.

Rick · 2nd August 2012, 05:11 PM

I have seen three recurring forms of kinatah applied to ganjas (the exposed top); they are usually either the Lion, the Elephant or the Buffalo .

I'm sure the symbolism is there for certain acts or deeds performed in the service of a Ruler .

David · 3rd August 2012, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GIO

I have seen (in books and museums) so many and different designs that it would be difficult for me to immagine that a kind of code may exist.
On the other hand I must recognize that a number of examples show (mainly on the ganja) that certain designs have been followed. I refer mainly to the designs of leaves and/or flowers, which, though different, follow an almost identical base design.

But i believe Alan has already established that such a code did in fact exist, albeit, from his knowledge for one particular kraton. I does seem logical however that all kratons had a similar code, though the specification might be somewhat different from one to the other. This could allow for a good number of acceptable designs in general.

Jean · 3rd August 2012, 09:56 AM

I would be interested to know if the kinatah motifs on the blades shown in some reference books such as "Keris Jawa" or the recent translation of Groneman's book are traditional or modern ones. The books are not with me at present so I can't pinpoint any specific example.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 5th August 2012, 08:30 AM

Jean. I'm afraid that I cannot answer your question.

I do not have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all possible variations of the motifs specified for use in the Kraton Surakarta, and then there are all the other specified motifs used in other kratons. In fact, I seriously doubt if anybody could answer your question.

If shown a particular kinatah motif I might be able to give an opinion as to whether it was a recent confection, or if it was something old. I can recognise older forms of singo barong, and naga, I can recognise older workmanship in lung-lungan motifs and sekar motifs, but I most certainly cannot ID everything either one way or the other. Haryonoguritno's book might not be a particularly good place to start, there is a lot of current era high art in that book.

One of the problems is this:- although a motif might be specified, the interpretation of the motif can vary from era to era , just the same as a keris dhapur can have exactly the same ricikan but totally different execution, which might be stylistc according to a maker, or stylistic according to an era.

I believe it would only be possible give a determination as to age and conformity with a set motif upon an individual basis, I don't think it would be possible to declare definitively that a certain example of a motif was the only valid way for that motif to be interpreted.

I have copies of the pattern books of several pendok craftsmen who work and who have worked in the Solo idiom. Throughout these books there are motifs that have the same name, but if you place each maker's pattern alongside the others, you will see significant variation in detail. All are valid renditions of the motif, but they vary. We can expect a similar thing in most, if not all craft work.

This variation becomes even greater when a motif transfers from one vehicle to another, for instance, a motif used in batik work and then used in some other form of decorative art. One such motif is the well known parang rusak. It is a common batik motif, and it is also a common pendok motif. The pendok motif contains the essential elements of the batik motif, but it varies greatly in detail. You can see the same thing over and over again in various motifs.

The information you are seeking is just too diverse to pin down to some sort of easily accessible formula or matrix, to understand the answers to the question you have raised we need to look at many, many examples that spread over many years and many forms, then we may be able to make a reasonable guess.

Jean · 5th August 2012, 09:19 AM

Hello Alan,
Thank you and I realize that my question is impossible to reply but you actually confirmed that many of the kinatah blades shown in the book "Keris Jawa" are recent pieces. Upon my return I will try to show more specimens of kinatah emas blades and I encourage other members to do the same just for sharing this nice art work, whether old or not.

Regards

2nd August 2012, 05:11 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Codes / Motifs I have seen three recurring forms of kinatah applied to ganjas (the exposed top); they are usually either the Lion, the Elephant or the Buffalo . I'm sure the symbolism is there for certain acts or deeds performed in the service of a Ruler .

1st August 2012, 06:30 PM	#1
GIO Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 328	It is only my personal opinion, but I think the range of designs is rather big, and can be modified to a certain extent according to the taste of the maker. It could be like the designs on the embossed pendoks: they follow certain base standards, but can be adapted to the maker's taste.

1st August 2012, 11:49 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	What I can remember about kinatah, without going back to my notebooks is this:- following the Pati rebellion against Mataram and the victory of Mataram over Pati, kinatah was awarded to the various officers in the military forces:- a penewu was accorded a singo- gajah gonjo, a bupati kliwon was accorded kinatah kamarogan, a bupati dalem and a pangeran were accorded kinatah anggrek, singo barong and nogo. Pati rebelled in 1617. There are four types of kinatah kamarogan:- ranting, daun, bunga, buah. Bupatis are entitled to wear these motifs. The family of a bupati dalem is entitled to kinatah anggrek, singo barong and manglar mongo. Prior to the Pati expedition singo - gajah kinatah did not exist. What I have written above refers to the Karaton Surakarta Hadiningrat. Other kratons may have different rules and different traditions. Originally kinatah work was the prerogative of a ruler to award as recognition of honour, similar to the way we give medals and awards to people now --- in May this year Bob Dylan received the Medal of Freedom, USA's highest civilian honour, if Bobby Boy had lived in Mataram his keris probably would have received a kinatah award instead. That's the way it worked. Don't forget:- the keris is the symbol of the man:- honour the keris, you honour the man. Since these kinatah awards were handed out by rulers, they needed to follow very strict rules that incorporated symbolism. It wasn't a haphazard daubing of gold, the kinatah motifs had meaning --- for instance, the singo barong is associated with warriors, just as the lion is associated with warriors in Hindu symbolism. But all this went down the tubes when the kratons lost their power under Dutch colonial rule, and rich people outside the kraton decided it was OK to give themselves kinatah awards.

3rd August 2012, 09:56 AM	#8
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	I would be interested to know if the kinatah motifs on the blades shown in some reference books such as "Keris Jawa" or the recent translation of Groneman's book are traditional or modern ones. The books are not with me at present so I can't pinpoint any specific example. Regards

5th August 2012, 08:30 AM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Jean. I'm afraid that I cannot answer your question. I do not have an encyclopaedic knowledge of all possible variations of the motifs specified for use in the Kraton Surakarta, and then there are all the other specified motifs used in other kratons. In fact, I seriously doubt if anybody could answer your question. If shown a particular kinatah motif I might be able to give an opinion as to whether it was a recent confection, or if it was something old. I can recognise older forms of singo barong, and naga, I can recognise older workmanship in lung-lungan motifs and sekar motifs, but I most certainly cannot ID everything either one way or the other. Haryonoguritno's book might not be a particularly good place to start, there is a lot of current era high art in that book. One of the problems is this:- although a motif might be specified, the interpretation of the motif can vary from era to era , just the same as a keris dhapur can have exactly the same ricikan but totally different execution, which might be stylistc according to a maker, or stylistic according to an era. I believe it would only be possible give a determination as to age and conformity with a set motif upon an individual basis, I don't think it would be possible to declare definitively that a certain example of a motif was the only valid way for that motif to be interpreted. I have copies of the pattern books of several pendok craftsmen who work and who have worked in the Solo idiom. Throughout these books there are motifs that have the same name, but if you place each maker's pattern alongside the others, you will see significant variation in detail. All are valid renditions of the motif, but they vary. We can expect a similar thing in most, if not all craft work. This variation becomes even greater when a motif transfers from one vehicle to another, for instance, a motif used in batik work and then used in some other form of decorative art. One such motif is the well known parang rusak. It is a common batik motif, and it is also a common pendok motif. The pendok motif contains the essential elements of the batik motif, but it varies greatly in detail. You can see the same thing over and over again in various motifs. The information you are seeking is just too diverse to pin down to some sort of easily accessible formula or matrix, to understand the answers to the question you have raised we need to look at many, many examples that spread over many years and many forms, then we may be able to make a reasonable guess.

5th August 2012, 09:19 AM	#10
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	Hello Alan, Thank you and I realize that my question is impossible to reply but you actually confirmed that many of the kinatah blades shown in the book "Keris Jawa" are recent pieces. Upon my return I will try to show more specimens of kinatah emas blades and I encourage other members to do the same just for sharing this nice art work, whether old or not. Regards