A gamble, your opinion?

[A. G. Maisey]

Traditional kinatah on a Javanese or a Balinese blade has specified meaning and more or less set design.

It is not just a matter of artistic ornamentation.

It must be gold, because of the societal and esoteric qualities of gold.

It cannot be silver, it cannot be brass, it cannot be gold plated brass.

It must be gold.

It is never cheap, nor even reasonably priced.


Kinatah-like ornamentation is not bound by the rules which apply to traditional kinatah. Some of this work can be quite old, quite beautiful and it can also be gold, but its prime purpose is to ornament the blade. Because it is not subject to the same rules as traditional kinatah it can come in brass, gold plated brass, silver, or whatever else might give an artistic effect.

In essence this type of blade ornamentation can be considered to be primarily artistic.

[rasjid]

I can't put someone else keris in this forum and discredit them
Yes David, the Keris is sold as old keris but I wont argue about the keris and its depending the buyer if they are prepared to spend and risk their money on it.

How many more out there good keris with old Kinatah work ? I'm talking long before 1900's

This is my own keris with Kinatah work, so any comment is welcome. I hope this one dont have "free" brass underneath.
Sorry for the low photo quality.

rasjid

[David]

Originally Posted by rasjid

This is my own keris with Kinatah work, so any comment is welcome. I hope this one dont have "free" brass underneath.
Sorry for the low photo quality.

Looks beautiful and well executed regardless of age.

[rasjid]

Originally Posted by David

Looks beautiful and well executed regardless of age.

Hi David,

Thanks, the Kinatah i believe done probably after 1980's not very recent and definetely not done before 1900's. The execution / made is following the proper way for Kinatah workmanship and higher level of the quality from current maker for the last 10 years.
I'm still watching current Kinatah done these few years and will wait for few more years maybe to commision one


Indonesia has many good artist for Kinatah work and also wood carving. The problem with "all" artist i believe they only gives you the best when they are not under pressure (time frame limit, could be money, etc).

Alan, thank you for the information. One Collector also mentioned to me that Kinatah on the Gandik should follow certain design with the gonjo. Of course, there are not documented anywhere, this information is only coming from his years of collecting old Kinatah keris workmanship and is Limited to what he saw.

Regards

Rasjid

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes Rasjid, I'm quite sure that the amount of leeway given to individual artists working according to kraton instructions would be pretty minimal. There might be a bit of tolerance to accommodate individual style and competence, but the kraton would definitely lay down what they wanted.

If a particular form should appear on the gandhik and gonjo, and the kraton was not happy with what was produced, you can bet it would have been sent back to do again and again, until they were happy.

[Jean]

Hello Alan,
Thank you for the detailed information. Have you got some pictures of representative specimens of the various and traditional types of kinatah to share with us? It would be great!
Regards

[A. G. Maisey]

Jean, I think you know my principles in respect of publishing photos of my personal keris:- I simply do not do it. I consider this practice to be disrespectful and in bad taste. This is a personal standard and is not intended as criticism of what others may do.

I am happy to publish photographs of keris I intend to sell, but I do not intend to sell any of my old kinatah keris at the present time.

Sorry.

[Jussi M.]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Traditional kinatah on a Javanese or a Balinese blade has specified meaning and more or less set design.

This is an interesting topic. If I may ask, is there remaining knowledge as to what degree does this "set design" has to fall onto? In other words, what forms the parameters of the "set design" - is there a documented pakem of sorts that must be followed or is it more of a custom transformed onto an unspoken rule, something in between or something else?

Thanks,

J.

[GIO]

It is only my personal opinion, but I think the range of designs is rather big, and can be modified to a certain extent according to the taste of the maker.
It could be like the designs on the embossed pendoks: they follow certain base standards, but can be adapted to the maker's taste.

[David]

Originally Posted by GIO

It is only my personal opinion, but I think the range of designs is rather big, and can be modified to a certain extent according to the taste of the maker.
It could be like the designs on the embossed pendoks: they follow certain base standards, but can be adapted to the maker's taste.

Gio, are you talking about traditional kinatah here or kinatah-like ornamentation?

[A. G. Maisey]

What I can remember about kinatah, without going back to my notebooks is this:-

following the Pati rebellion against Mataram and the victory of Mataram over Pati, kinatah was awarded to the various officers in the military forces:- a penewu was accorded a singo- gajah gonjo, a bupati kliwon was accorded kinatah kamarogan, a bupati dalem and a pangeran were accorded kinatah anggrek, singo barong and nogo.

Pati rebelled in 1617.

There are four types of kinatah kamarogan:- ranting, daun, bunga, buah. Bupatis are entitled to wear these motifs.

The family of a bupati dalem is entitled to kinatah anggrek, singo barong and manglar mongo.

Prior to the Pati expedition singo - gajah kinatah did not exist.

What I have written above refers to the Karaton Surakarta Hadiningrat. Other kratons may have different rules and different traditions.

Originally kinatah work was the prerogative of a ruler to award as recognition of honour, similar to the way we give medals and awards to people now --- in May this year Bob Dylan received the Medal of Freedom, USA's highest civilian honour, if Bobby Boy had lived in Mataram his keris probably would have received a kinatah award instead. That's the way it worked. Don't forget:- the keris is the symbol of the man:- honour the keris, you honour the man.

Since these kinatah awards were handed out by rulers, they needed to follow very strict rules that incorporated symbolism. It wasn't a haphazard daubing of gold, the kinatah motifs had meaning --- for instance, the singo barong is associated with warriors, just as the lion is associated with warriors in Hindu symbolism.

But all this went down the tubes when the kratons lost their power under Dutch colonial rule, and rich people outside the kraton decided it was OK to give themselves kinatah awards.

[Jussi M.]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Since these kinatah awards were handed out by rulers, they needed to follow very strict rules that incorporated symbolism. It wasn't a haphazard daubing of gold, the kinatah motifs had meaning (...)

But all this went down the tubes when the kratons lost their power under Dutch colonial rule, and rich people outside the kraton decided it was OK to give themselves kinatah awards.

[GIO]

Originally Posted by David

Gio, are you talking about traditional kinatah here or kinatah-like ornamentation?

Hi David,
I am talking about traditional kinatah.
I have seen (in books and museums) so many and different designs that it would be difficult for me to immagine that a kind of code may exist.
On the other hand I must recognize that a number of examples show (mainly on the ganja) that certain designs have been followed. I refer mainly to the designs of leaves and/or flowers, which, though different, follow an almost identical base design.
I do have a few specimens which have kinatah on the ganja only, on part of the blade or on the whole blade, but my poor culture on keris does not allow me to compress all designs in a number of rules.

[Rick]

I have seen three recurring forms of kinatah applied to ganjas (the exposed top); they are usually either the Lion, the Elephant or the Buffalo .

I'm sure the symbolism is there for certain acts or deeds performed in the service of a Ruler .

[David]

Originally Posted by GIO

I have seen (in books and museums) so many and different designs that it would be difficult for me to immagine that a kind of code may exist.
On the other hand I must recognize that a number of examples show (mainly on the ganja) that certain designs have been followed. I refer mainly to the designs of leaves and/or flowers, which, though different, follow an almost identical base design.

But i believe Alan has already established that such a code did in fact exist, albeit, from his knowledge for one particular kraton. I does seem logical however that all kratons had a similar code, though the specification might be somewhat different from one to the other. This could allow for a good number of acceptable designs in general.

[Jean]

I would be interested to know if the kinatah motifs on the blades shown in some reference books such as "Keris Jawa" or the recent translation of Groneman's book are traditional or modern ones. The books are not with me at present so I can't pinpoint any specific example.
Regards