Weapon (possibly) and translation please

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Atlantia ~ I love coffee pots ! There is something very pleasing about the simple shape..and with the long beak spout they take on a character all of their own. My own collection numbers several score. The best ones I ever owned were sent to me by a friend of mine who found them in a famous English souk ! both were signed by the maker in 1912 in Nizwa! Telling the difference is not easy as these days styles are copied all over the place and Pakistani Syrian Yemeni Saudia ... The list goes on ... It is quite difficult to pinpoint. The most difficult engineering is the lid which should be fluted like the body. Original pots are made from one flat sheet of metal be that copper brass or even silver... They are built from the ground up. To protect from verdigris poison (mold that grows on brass) the pots are tinned(tin drenched) sometimes all over inside and out but normally just the inside in the old days this was a Z'tooti ~Gypsi occupation)
Some regional pots have distinct flat tops others more pointed and there is a different more sophisticated shape for a serving pot rather than the pot that goes in the fire to cook up the brew... I will drum up a picture.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Namaste Ibrahiim,

I'm familiar with the construction techniques, but what puzzles me is why this one is Syrian? It seems completely 'standard' in form to me. I've seen this type claimed as 'prizes' of travels to other countries and although as Lotfy rightly points out these are widely 'travelled' it would be interesting to pin it's specific regional 'attributes' for future reference.
I must admit I've had 'some' over the years but none at the moment. I like them, but space is limited!

I have a few Syrian and Egyptian pieces which being similar in style of decoration go well together. I like even the small simple items like this cup:

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

Namaste Ibrahiim,

I'm familiar with the construction techniques, but what puzzles me is why this one is Syrian? It seems completely 'standard' in form to me. I've seen this type claimed as 'prizes' of travels to other countries and although as Lotfy rightly points out these are widely 'travelled' it would be interesting to pin it's specific regional 'attributes' for future reference.
I must admit I've had 'some' over the years but none at the moment. I like them, but space is limited!

I have a few Syrian and Egyptian pieces which being similar in style of decoration go well together. I like even the small simple items like this cup:

Salaams Atlantia ~The cup is nice. I think this is a prayer cup reflecting the religious incantations inscribed about the vessel into the water in the cup... and thus into the person drinking it.

When deciding where a pot may or may not be from (bearing in mind that variations are made in several countries i.e. copied styles ) I start by ruling out countries where I know that style is not knocked out~ That narrows the field and with the piece in question I was down to either Syria or Pakistan with a possibility of Saudia. Thats about it ... Not a rocket science and a bit vague but thats the way it is with coffee pots...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Atlantia ~The cup is nice. I think this is a prayer cup reflecting the religious incantations inscribed about the vessel into the water in the cup... and thus into the person drinking it.

When deciding where a pot may or may not be from (bearing in mind that variations are made in several countries i.e. copied styles ) I start by ruling out countries where I know that style is not knocked out~ That narrows the field and with the piece in question I was down to either Syria or Pakistan with a possibility of Saudia. Thats about it ... Not a rocket science and a bit vague but thats the way it is with coffee pots...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Namaste as always

Well, that's it exactly, I'd have plumped for Saudi myself (if pushed). I must admit I hadn't considered Pakistan. Hmm, food for thought, thanks Ibrahiim.
Glad you like the cup, sometimes these small pieces have a 'presence' that belies their diminutive size or lack of embellishments.

Best
Gene

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Atlantia ~The cup is nice. I think this is a prayer cup reflecting the religious incantations inscribed about the vessel into the water in the cup... and thus into the person drinking it.

Aleikum Salam Ibrahiim
it's not a "prayer cup" called in Arabic "tasset el kha'da" or "tasset el rhaba",
either "Islamic talismanic bowl" or "medicine bowl"
it's my specialty, I have a not too bad knowledge about those particular items
the main thing to identify it
- must have engraving inside the bowl, and may be outside
- engraving must contain Surat (or part) "Ayat al-Kursî"
- the oldest and rear one, have the Salomon seal, on the middle
after, there is a long speech possible about it, but it will bother everybody,
it's a field of few more or less .... crazy for

best regards

à +

Dom

[Jim McDougall]

Unbelievable!!!! I almost brought up something on edged weapon blade marks but was afraid I might be too far off topic.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Dom

Aleikum Salam Ibrahiim
it's not a "prayer cup" called in Arabic "tasset el kha'da" or "tasset el rhaba",
either "Islamic talismanic bowl" or "medicine bowl"
it's my specialty, I have a not too bad knowledge about those particular items
the main thing to identify it
- must have engraving inside the bowl, and may be outside
- engraving must contain Surat (or part) "Ayat al-Kursî"
- the oldest and rear one, have the Salomon seal, on the middle
after, there is a long speech possible about it, but it will bother everybody,
it's a field of few more or less .... crazy for

best regards

à +

Dom

Salaams Dom ~ Great collection. I have had a few of those through my hands and retain 3 in my private collection... I consider these and marks/decorations on coffee pots pottery and other artefacts all linked to ethnographic swords etc etc.. They exist together. Great pictures of Bedouin etc I have the same book Syria full of great artefacts.
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Dom

Aleikum Salam Ibrahiim
it's not a "prayer cup" called in Arabic "tasset el kha'da" or "tasset el rhaba",
either "Islamic talismanic bowl" or "medicine bowl"
it's my specialty, I have a not too bad knowledge about those particular items
the main thing to identify it
- must have engraving inside the bowl, and may be outside
- engraving must contain Surat (or part) "Ayat al-Kursî"
- the oldest and rear one, have the Salomon seal, on the middle
after, there is a long speech possible about it, but it will bother everybody,
it's a field of few more or less .... crazy for

best regards

à +

Dom

My Syrian Cup: wine cup of better than usual quality engraving. 19thC

[David]

Seriously gentlemen, this might be a better place for this discussion...
http://www.coffeeforums.com/

[spiral]

Fascinating thread chaps!

Heres a picture Artzi posted once before, from the book: In the Footsteps of Abraham, The Holy Land in Hand-painted Photographs . Hardiman, Richard and Speelman, Helen.

Coffee pots in use also to help the weapon angle Shybria, a sword, shooters & a Druze khanjar..

Spiral

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Atlantia

I like even the small simple items like this cup:

Hi Atlantia
translation for what you qualify of "wine cup"
AL RAHMAN either THE MERCIFUL, one of the 99 names for God in Islam
also ... name for the Quran Surat 55 name "Al-Rahman" - سورة الرحمن same meaning

ok, now that you know it, never be used otherwise than as "water cup"

à +

Dom

[Atlantia]

Originally Posted by Dom

Hi Atlantia
translation for what you qualify of "wine cup"
AL RAHMAN either THE MERCIFUL, one of the 99 names for God in Islam
also ... name for the Quran Surat 55 name "Al-Rahman" - سورة الرحمن same meaning

ok, now that you know it, never be used otherwise than as "water cup"

à +

Dom

LOL< thanks mate. Don't drag me back to the thread, David's sword arm is poised above us ready to chop!

[David]

[Richard G]

Dom,
I'll risk my head above the parapet just long enough to say; Thank you.
Best wishes
Richard

[Dom]

PHEW !! ... muffed