Nimcha (?) with European Blade for Comments

[A.alnakkas]

Ibrahim; Yep, Ariel didnt show the kilij but I wanted to show him the saif to see if it have similar decoration to his kilij.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams, Shall we move the thread along and have a look at some maps ?

By no means the be all and end all of maps showing Bedouin tribal areas ~ this is a great start.
From the excellent book on Bedouin by Alan Keohane This is a must read for all enthusiasts of Bedouin and their equipment.

Perhaps other maps can be added as they appear.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Just small entry: - sabers (hilts) from Yemen

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

Just small entry: - sabers (hilts) from Yemen

Salaams Martin Lubojacky] Excellent pictures of what I have already described as The Yemeni Nimcha. #64 at the thread Oman, Morocco or Zanzibar? on this forum. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...zanzibar+yemen

Other less well made hilts appear which may well only be "the poor mans copy" of better made hilts you show here...The transition from Zanzibari style pommel and the variation towards cross guard Saudia style and the way in which the hilt transcends toward Karabela form are apparent in your great exhibits.

The difficult part is trying to work in which blades/hilts were imported and which were made e.g. in Hadramaut and what if any input was made by Jewish craftsmen and since much of their work is shrouded in mystery and public denial we may never get to the root of it. Hyderabad more than likely has a hand in a lot of the associated Hadramauti work but once again the outlook is foggy.

Only by comparing and weighing up all the facts and by such excellent information such as your photographs can we hope to guage the clearer picture. This helps bring to life Buttins work (and others) and further expands it...moreover it focusses the discussion on our ongoing, live, forum effort. ~Thank you.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams, Shall we move the thread along and have a look at some maps ?
By no means the be all and end all of maps showing Bedouin tribal areas ~ this is a great start.

Ya mahaba Ibrahiim, just a little help
with the involontary help of the writer "Benoist-Méchin"
he was very active in years 60 in Middle-East, he has writes the biography of Ibn Saud
extracted from one of his book, this document (in French, but with translation in English in red)
I do not pretend, that all tribes are mentioned
but at least the most importants of them
for record, my translator is issued from the tribe of "Juhainah"

regards

à +

Dom

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Dom

Ya mahaba Ibrahiim, just a little help
with the involontary help of the writer "Benoist-Méchin"
he was very active in years 60 in Middle-East, he has writes the biography of Ibn Saud
extracted from one of his book, this document (in French, but with translation in English in red)
I do not pretend, that all tribes are mentioned
but at least the most importants of them
for record, my translator is issued from the tribe of "Juhainah"

regards

à +

Dom

Salaams and welcome to you also Dom ~ Very Nice Tribal chart and exactly the sort of support and detail I hope for rolling forward. As a gentle reminder (whilst it is superb to have a full tribal map) On this occasion I am particularly focussed upon Bedouin only. Thank you for showing the map and I can already see lovely similarities in the spelling and parallel information. Please keep adding detail as you like... Shukran !
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[broadaxe]

Hello all, this is super important conversation. My personal points: 1. Negev/Sinai sa'ifs do have, rarely, d-guards - sometimes of steel, sometimes even aluminum (I will post photos later on if there is interest).
2. It appears scabbards show a lot of diversity as for the external layer and design, over the wood clam - leather with metal fittings, rawhide, parchment, velvet (mostly current).
3. Blades also show great diversity, and I have some surprizes up my sleeve.
4. This particular saber looks all-beduin, but I think of Saudi origin because of the pommel recess. Could be also from the eastern shores of Sinai.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by broadaxe

Hello all, this is super important conversation. My personal points: 1. Negev/Sinai sa'ifs do have, rarely, d-guards - sometimes of steel, sometimes even aluminum (I will post photos later on if there is interest).
2. It appears scabbards show a lot of diversity as for the external layer and design, over the wood clam - leather with metal fittings, rawhide, parchment, velvet (mostly current).
3. Blades also show great diversity, and I have some surprizes up my sleeve.
4. This particular saber looks all-beduin, but I think of Saudi origin because of the pommel recess. Could be also from the eastern shores of Sinai.

There you are!!!!!
Ive been hoping you would come in on this, and I for one would really like you to detail more on these fascinating weapons. Your long established knowledge on these would really benefit this thread as an informational source in classification.

All the best,
Jim

[broadaxe]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

There you are!!!!!
Ive been hoping you would come in on this, and I for one would really like you to detail more on these fascinating weapons. Your long established knowledge on these would really benefit this thread as an informational source in classification.

All the best,
Jim

Thanks Jim, I'm always here. I was considering for a long time, the thought of making some sort of publication, but as I have a long list of obligations I tend to do it here, as posts. The bedouin sa'if is an ellusive thing to define and we can classify three groups: shashka-type, shamshir-type, and 'others' (non-standard, secondary use, reshaped).


Im with you, as I have always thought of publishing some sort of monographs on certain weapons and forms, however the research is always so constantly in flux on so many fields it has been hard to focus on one.
Like you, this has been my 'published' venue, and that is great as these are sort of living publications since they have the wonderful dimension of constant discussion and input as new evidence becomes available. What better sort of archived material could there be!
I hope you will add data on these here, and as so many archived threads this will become a most important resource for continued study.

All the best,
Jim