Nimcha (?) with European Blade for Comments

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you for the replies Lofty and Ibrahiim.
I think the sa'if in #12 at top with chainguard is most likely Hadhramauti in accord with Elgood's notes in "Arabian Arms and Armour", which has sa'if with varying hilt forms and silverwork with chainguards. The sharply canted pommel cap seems to concur with other Arabian swords seen in that reference also.
The 'Zanzibari' reference to the second sword (#12) with raised ring crossguard characteristic of these 'nimchas' in popular classification and per Buttin does seem to fall in line with the sword Lofty has posted in comparing the hilt furnishings. I would be inclined to agree that typically the Bedouin or 'Palestinian' sabres do not have knuckleguards, and the hangers and sabres of Yemen do usually have the triple roundels in the grip. But here is the rub in properly identifying these blades which come from the Red Sea trade and have been refurbished through generations.

Zanzibari swords were apparantly highly imported in Yemen from there, the diffusion between Yemeni entrepots and Sinai trade centers would be quite understandable.

All best regards,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Thank you for the replies Lofty and Ibrahiim.
I think the sa'if in #12 at top with chainguard is most likely Hadhramauti in accord with Elgood's notes in "Arabian Arms and Armour", which has sa'if with varying hilt forms and silverwork with chainguards. The sharply canted pommel cap seems to concur with other Arabian swords seen in that reference also.
The 'Zanzibari' reference to the second sword (#12) with raised ring crossguard characteristic of these 'nimchas' in popular classification and per Buttin does seem to fall in line with the sword Lofty has posted in comparing the hilt furnishings. I would be inclined to agree that typically the Bedouin or 'Palestinian' sabres do not have knuckleguards, and the hangers and sabres of Yemen do usually have the triple roundels in the grip. But here is the rub in properly identifying these blades which come from the Red Sea trade and have been refurbished through generations.

Zanzibari swords were apparantly highly imported in Yemen from there, the diffusion between Yemeni entrepots and Sinai trade centers would be quite understandable.

All best regards,
Jim

Salaams Jim ~ This Buttin Nimcha family is a very large group of swords...Follow any one of the styles in a certain direction and as you say "Theres the rub" as first one small detail changes then a whole series of things happens and away goes the hilt ~ Im not at all clear as to the origins of the blade ? Was it from the Spanish Jinetta or did it originate in Italy Venice Genoa around the formation of the Schiavonas and did it not then transfer across the North African Pirates Coast via Algeria to Morocco?... Or did the whole thing swing the other way round... ?

Buttin never identified the Yemeni version as The Yemeni Nimcha, nor did he identify the Bedawi Nimcha or the Bedawi (Palestinian) Or am I missing something?


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[A.alnakkas]

The Palastinian saif is shared for comparison with Ariel's kilij (which I hope he shares) and not to suggest that its a nimcha. As for the origin of the blade, I cannot be sure but its probably locally made.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

The Palastinian saif is shared for comparison with Ariel's kilij (which I hope he shares) and not to suggest that its a nimcha. As for the origin of the blade, I cannot be sure but its probably locally made.

Salaams A.alnakkas, I assume this is for me~ but we havent seen a kilij from ariel?? Is the Palestinian sword a derivative of one of Buttins Nimcha? Does it therefor originate from the Red Sea perhaps a Saudia variant. Is the other Nimcha with the (I)NDIA scroll work one of the Yemeni variants then modified as Bedawi..

There is a lot of detail hanging in the wind on this weapon and I wonder if it was simply a hybridised cutlass which once it hit the Zanzibar hub shattered into so many other sub types that it became uncontrollably difused.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[A.alnakkas]

Ibrahim; Yep, Ariel didnt show the kilij but I wanted to show him the saif to see if it have similar decoration to his kilij.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams, Shall we move the thread along and have a look at some maps ?

By no means the be all and end all of maps showing Bedouin tribal areas ~ this is a great start.
From the excellent book on Bedouin by Alan Keohane This is a must read for all enthusiasts of Bedouin and their equipment.

Perhaps other maps can be added as they appear.

Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Martin Lubojacky]

Just small entry: - sabers (hilts) from Yemen

[Dom]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams, Shall we move the thread along and have a look at some maps ?
By no means the be all and end all of maps showing Bedouin tribal areas ~ this is a great start.

Ya mahaba Ibrahiim, just a little help
with the involontary help of the writer "Benoist-Méchin"
he was very active in years 60 in Middle-East, he has writes the biography of Ibn Saud
extracted from one of his book, this document (in French, but with translation in English in red)
I do not pretend, that all tribes are mentioned
but at least the most importants of them
for record, my translator is issued from the tribe of "Juhainah"

regards

à +

Dom