Navajas of the Galleons

Battara · 3rd June 2012, 12:50 AM

Actually it was not Morrocan but Afrikaans and said, "Van a boor in varin (spelling)" which a friend who could speak Afikaans translated as "From a true Boar". The horn handle was white horn and it had a ratchet locking mechanism.

I which I had internet pictures of it but alas they were lost and I sold the piece long ago.

Dmitry · 3rd June 2012, 03:27 AM

My money is on the razors, not knives. Iron discipline was required on board ships, especially the treasure ships and naval vessels. Sailors did not carry knives as a matter of fact, all the repairs of the tackle and sails were done by the sail-makers and their crews, who had their own tools.
As we can see from numerous period paintings, most people were clean-shaven, even the lower classes [and sailors were the lowest of the low], to combat lice and infections. Author writes about scars on faces of some of the crew members. It could have been pox, acne, who knows.
The lone knife that he pictures with a plastic mould done after the original blade looks like a fruit knife. In regard to Newman's pictures of the folding knives, many of them have been identified as provincial Italian shabby jobs, not 18th c., but mid-19th or even early 20th c.
All in all I find the topic interesting, but the supplied article not convincing in the least. I can be wrong, of course.
Just my $ .02

M ELEY · 3rd June 2012, 12:42 PM

Interesting. As I said, I'm a novice when it comes to these, so I welcome the feedback and opinion. It is troubling that the powers that be would allow sailors, many of them possibly mutinous, access to such tools while at sea. Hmm, perhaps you are onto something, Dmitri. I do wish there were some period paintings or inventory lists that might shed light on the subject better. If these were carried by sailors or pirates, I'd love to add them to the collection. If not, I'd pass...

fernando · 3rd June 2012, 04:26 PM

Say, Mark,
Have yout tried the search button ?
... Many threads on navajas there, including pictures of Battara's example, as well as others.

M ELEY · 4th June 2012, 12:06 AM

Oh no, Fernando! Not the egg of Columbus quip again!! That one is becoming my "Shaver Cool" shocker these days!

You are right, of course. I did briefly look at some of the past threads. My main concern was for possible naval use. Even given that perhaps common naval men and merchant sailors didn't carry them, there is still enormous room (and needed research) for their use on privateers and pirate vessels, who had no such rules and regulations. As Gilkerson points out, these flotilla of vessels far out-numbered the existing navies at the time. Thanks for the reminder about old threads, though. I shall partake of them when I get the chance.

Rick · 4th June 2012, 01:47 AM

Not to worry Mark .
I was brought up with a round turn on my hand cannon inquiry .

You are not alone .

Dmitry · 4th June 2012, 04:01 AM

Think about it. 500 ton galleon, loaded with millions worth of riches, with a crew of about 200-250 rough muchachos, many of them convicts. Even 20 hombres armed with navajas could easily disarm the guard of the gun-room, secure it, proceed to overtake the ship, and sail her wherever they wanted to. No captain in his right mind would allow knives to be carried by the ratings.
I don't want to repeat myself, but all the jobs requiring something to be cut were done by the specialist crews, carpenter, sail-maker, purser, etc. Sailors would have no business having a knife on board. They even ate with their hands.
Just my 2 reales..

3rd June 2012, 04:26 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	The egg of Colombus Say, Mark, Have yout tried the search button ? ... Many threads on navajas there, including pictures of Battara's example, as well as others.

3rd June 2012, 12:50 AM	#1
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Actually it was not Morrocan but Afrikaans and said, "Van a boor in varin (spelling)" which a friend who could speak Afikaans translated as "From a true Boar". The horn handle was white horn and it had a ratchet locking mechanism. I which I had internet pictures of it but alas they were lost and I sold the piece long ago.

3rd June 2012, 03:27 AM	#2
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	My money is on the razors, not knives. Iron discipline was required on board ships, especially the treasure ships and naval vessels. Sailors did not carry knives as a matter of fact, all the repairs of the tackle and sails were done by the sail-makers and their crews, who had their own tools. As we can see from numerous period paintings, most people were clean-shaven, even the lower classes [and sailors were the lowest of the low], to combat lice and infections. Author writes about scars on faces of some of the crew members. It could have been pox, acne, who knows. The lone knife that he pictures with a plastic mould done after the original blade looks like a fruit knife. In regard to Newman's pictures of the folding knives, many of them have been identified as provincial Italian shabby jobs, not 18th c., but mid-19th or even early 20th c. All in all I find the topic interesting, but the supplied article not convincing in the least. I can be wrong, of course. Just my $ .02

3rd June 2012, 12:42 PM	#3
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Interesting. As I said, I'm a novice when it comes to these, so I welcome the feedback and opinion. It is troubling that the powers that be would allow sailors, many of them possibly mutinous, access to such tools while at sea. Hmm, perhaps you are onto something, Dmitri. I do wish there were some period paintings or inventory lists that might shed light on the subject better. If these were carried by sailors or pirates, I'd love to add them to the collection. If not, I'd pass...

4th June 2012, 12:06 AM	#5
M ELEY Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: NC, U.S.A. Posts: 2,141	Oh no, Fernando! Not the egg of Columbus quip again!! That one is becoming my "Shaver Cool" shocker these days! You are right, of course. I did briefly look at some of the past threads. My main concern was for possible naval use. Even given that perhaps common naval men and merchant sailors didn't carry them, there is still enormous room (and needed research) for their use on privateers and pirate vessels, who had no such rules and regulations. As Gilkerson points out, these flotilla of vessels far out-numbered the existing navies at the time. Thanks for the reminder about old threads, though. I shall partake of them when I get the chance.

4th June 2012, 01:47 AM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Not to worry Mark . I was brought up with a round turn on my hand cannon inquiry . You are not alone .

4th June 2012, 04:01 AM	#7
Dmitry Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 607	Think about it. 500 ton galleon, loaded with millions worth of riches, with a crew of about 200-250 rough muchachos, many of them convicts. Even 20 hombres armed with navajas could easily disarm the guard of the gun-room, secure it, proceed to overtake the ship, and sail her wherever they wanted to. No captain in his right mind would allow knives to be carried by the ratings. I don't want to repeat myself, but all the jobs requiring something to be cut were done by the specialist crews, carpenter, sail-maker, purser, etc. Sailors would have no business having a knife on board. They even ate with their hands. Just my 2 reales..