Another eBay Keris

[Gustav]

This is how the stem of your sheath most probably looked like, Dan. I also don't think it is a replacement.

[dbhmgb]

Detlef & Gustav - Thank you! I get it now - not replaced.

Thank you, Gustav, for the picture - that is very helpful! I just inspected my sheath and it does appear that it may have been wrapped much like the one in the picture.

[Rick]

Well done .
Hard to get a nice piece on ebay these days .

Forty bucks !

[dbhmgb]

Thanks Rick! Believe me, no one is as surprised as I am. Usually, I only win the "Buy It Now" auctions on eBay.

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Gustav

This is how the stem of your sheath most probably looked like, Dan. I also don't think it is a replacement.

Hi Gustav,
Can you show us the blade please?
You say that "the sheath form is South/ toward Central Sumatran", which area do you mean exactly?
Regards

[Gustav]

Jean, I can't show the blade, becouse it isn't mine. If I remember correctly, I have been told it is an untypical Chenok blade from Northern Malay regions (Singora). As I said before, this sheath form is to be found also there, sometimes with coteng hilts, see Dave Henkel's site: http://kerisarchipelago.150m.com/webpage/Tajong2.htm

Please note, the pendokok in the picture from my last post is also very similar, if not directly the same type.

As I stated in my first post, there probably are traces of rattan binding still visible on the stem, which Dan confirmed.

That's why I posted this picture as a sample how Dan's sheath most probably looked like.

Regarding the exact area, I already wrote: "Most probably Minangkabau? Not much is really known about South/Central Sumatran forms, and it seems it will for ever stay so." I don't have heard about a serious research regarding keris in these regions. As soon as we are moving out from Palembang, we don't have nothing really supported - regarding Lampung, regarding Palembang towards Pegunungan Barisan, regarding Bengkulu, regarding Indrapura, regarding Palembang towards Jambi.

Most of what we can recognize in this part of Suamtra is a changing level of Palembang influence (which is again influenced by West Java or and later Mataram) or direct West Java influence regarding Sumatran South-West coast; - interacting with Bugis influence. Whe can perhaps guess about the region using this changing level. This is better then nothing, yet not really serious.

Regarding similar sheath (and blade) style on Peninsula: keris do travel, as do the people. We know there are serious old Minangkabau populations on Peninsula, we know that Minangkabau keris was much appreciated on Peninsula, and we know about ties between Minangkabau and Peninsular royal houses. And that's unfortunately almost all.

[Jean]

Thank you Gustav, personally I don't recognize the kris from Dan as Minang (blade & wrongko) but I have no better alternative to propose . We know that many Sumatran krisses are mixed pieces but this one seems original.
I visited West Sumatra (Padang and Bukittinggi) some years ago and saw a number of krisses there but do not remember a similar one. My only observation is that according to Jensen this style of wrongko is derived from the old Makassar/ Goa krisses so it should logically be found in Bugis influenced areas of Sumatra or Malaysia, i.e. costal areas.
The input from our Singapore members would be welcome.
Regards

[Gustav]

Originally Posted by Jean

Thank you Gustav, personally I don't recognize the kris from Dan as Minang (blade & wrongko)

Jean, I never said this blade is Minang. I said: "Blade is a fairly typical South Sumatran one, perhaps one still can see strong West Java influences here. I wouldn't call this blade Bugis."

Originally Posted by Jean

My only observation is that according to Jensen this style of wrongko is derived from the old Makassar/ Goa krisses so it should logically be found in Bugis influenced areas of Sumatra or Malaysia, i.e. costal areas.

Yes, and one of the variants, according to Jensen, can be found on Minangkabau keris. Of course, one should notice, Jensens attributions are sometimes pretty questionable. According to Jensen, we also should believe, Minangkabau produced only small sized Bahari and 3 Luk blades.

[Gustav]

Regarding the similar blade styles: here is Dan's keris (Sumatra?), Paul's Coteng (Peninsula) and a typical Palembang blade. Note the slender Luks and thick Gonjo.

[Gustav]

And here comes Paul's Coteng in sheath and Dan's sheath:

[Jean]

Originally Posted by Gustav

According to Jensen, we also should believe, Minangkabau produced only small sized Bahari and 3 Luk blades.

Gustav,
Frankly speaking, this is also what I observed locally but in absence of other references I am not pretending that this is the thruth (many Minang krisses were confiscated by the Dutch after the 19th century civil war).
I attach the pictures of 2 representative specimens, the sampir of some Minang keris looks like the one from Dan indeed, but not at all the stem (often slimmer and silver decorated, and with a short neck).

[Gustav]

And here some more "brothers".

At first one mentioned by BluErf here, in post #3:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...light=liongate

The sheath and pendokok are the same form, hilt a little more elaborate in carving, yet the similar style. There most probably is a trace of a sleeve covering the joint line between sampir and batang (similar sleeves are also found on Minang sheeths among others). BluErf attributed it to Sumatra back then.

Then there is a similar hilt form Dave Henkel posted here:

http://www.vikingsword.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000847.html

He wrote: "Another rare form. Sumatran most likely but God knows where. Still its very much a Bugis keris." Here I disagree, becouse Gonjo is not that of a common Bugis keris. It is completely straight and has signs of a small Tungkakan (as part of Greneng).

For comparison a Minangkabau Pangulu hilt. Here I should add, most probably Dan's hilt has lost much of its original surface with the time, also the Minangkabau hilt. They look well-worne, but one still sees traces of carvings on Dan's hilt.