Ceremonial moro keris? Comment needed!

nechesh · 1st September 2005, 02:30 AM

Hey Philkid. Yes, certainly a beautiful kris, though so far no one has addressed your question. I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you ask, is this a ceremonial kris. To me, it appears that this kris was probably owned by a person of high standing, perhaps a datu. In that respect i would say that it is not a common battle kris and may have never taken any blood. Does that mean it is ceremonial. IMO, not necessarily. I suppose i consider a blade to be ceremonial when it is conceived to serve purely that function. I don't think that datus had to do the actual fighting all that often, but i don't think that makes their weapons purely ceremonial. And if personally attacked he would probably draw it and defend himself. There are certain weapons, such as the Indonesian keris sajen which are purely of a ceremonial function. This kris looks far too "fully" functional for that designation.

rahman · 1st September 2005, 02:54 AM

The calligraphic style on "Bismillahi rahmani rahim (In the name of God, most Gracious, most Merciful)" is standard Arabic, but the one for "Allahu Akbar (God is great)" probably has strong local Moro influence. It's a very interesting rendition. They were obviously inscribed separately by two different people and probably at two different times.

I like the mother of pearl inlay on the sampir... we don't see much of that.

philkid · 1st September 2005, 05:30 AM

Hi Rahman and Nechesh, thanks for the info you shared. Actually the inlay on the sampir is made from silver not MOP. I agree with you Nechesh that this is a fully functional battle kris since it handles pretty well and the blade is just pretty much made for battle. Do some of other forum members have a sword similar to this one? Kindly share pictures? Thanks.

Battara · 1st September 2005, 05:56 AM

Very Impressive puppy (woof!

). To answer your question, in Cato's words, yes it is ceremonial. My other thoughts are that it may be Maguindanao, and that it looks like it is a low silver-white brass metal with brass? It is posible that the yellow metal may be swaasa, but not sure by the picture color. Bands on the scabbard are most likely white brass. Only testing the metal at a jewelry store (or me

) would you be able to know for sure. Are these 1920s fittings on a late 1800s blade? Nice catch no matter what. Also, again according to Cato (and Moro culture before the 1920s) datu and sultan metal blades were functional, even if only for status or ceremonial.

philkid · 1st September 2005, 10:08 AM

Hi Battara my thoughts exactly, this kris is Maguindanaoan due to its long heavy blade. The pommel is made from silver. The yellow metal seems gold to me but I haven't seen swaasa before. Can you elaborate the qualities of a swaasa?

zelbone · 2nd September 2005, 04:38 AM

Actually, the blade looks more Maranao to me as well as the rest of the kris...scabbard, hilt, etc...

Here's a pic of two Maranao krises of mine. The one on the left has a kakatua made of brass and silver. It's kind of beat-up and not as ornate as yours. The hilt is wrapped in cord and covered with pitch.

Battara · 2nd September 2005, 05:42 AM

The Maguindanao also had heavy blades. What moves it more in that direction for me than Maranao are the fittings. Filigree and woven silver are more of a Sulu style/expertise and good chased okir work more of a Maranao style/expertise. According to Cato, there was an influence of Sulu style that could be seen in Maguindanao and not so much on Maranao. The mixing of the two influences is more of a Maguindanao trait. These are the reasons I lean toward Maguindanao.

On the swaasa question, swaasa is a mixture of gold and other metals to attain different colors. This was not only used in the Philippines, but also in Indonesia and Malaysia. The most common metals mixed with gold were copper and silver. Most of the swaasa that I have seen (and with a friend made) is made with a larger portion of copper and smaller amount of gold. This combonation creates an orange color to the metal at a roughly 7-9 karat gold. A second semi-common form I have seen has a larger amount of silver and lesser amount of gold (same karat) and this changes the color to a bleached gold look. The orange variety was probably more affordable to make, though still quite expensive. I was wondering if the band on top of the pommel is gold layer over silver, brass, or swaasa in a variation of the orange color.

Below is a picture of a Maguindanao kris I got in eBay years ago made with ivory, silver, and swaasa done in okir design. It is my avatar, but I thought the larger picture would be easier to see (and much more delightful

). The swaasa is the orange colored okir bands on the hilt. On the pictures of the whole thing, the slender bands are the swaasa that a friend and I made to match those on the hilt (this was the second scabbard I made from scratch, including the okir silver band work).

Battara · 2nd September 2005, 06:01 AM

By the way, Zelbone, I like the Maguindanao kris on the left - it has beautiful silver okir inlay on the blade.

1st September 2005, 05:56 AM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Very Impressive puppy (woof! ). To answer your question, in Cato's words, yes it is ceremonial. My other thoughts are that it may be Maguindanao, and that it looks like it is a low silver-white brass metal with brass? It is posible that the yellow metal may be swaasa, but not sure by the picture color. Bands on the scabbard are most likely white brass. Only testing the metal at a jewelry store (or me ) would you be able to know for sure. Are these 1920s fittings on a late 1800s blade? Nice catch no matter what. Also, again according to Cato (and Moro culture before the 1920s) datu and sultan metal blades were functional, even if only for status or ceremonial. Last edited by Battara; 1st September 2005 at 06:34 AM.

2nd September 2005, 04:38 AM	#6
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	Actually, the blade looks more Maranao to me as well as the rest of the kris...scabbard, hilt, etc... Here's a pic of two Maranao krises of mine. The one on the left has a kakatua made of brass and silver. It's kind of beat-up and not as ornate as yours. The hilt is wrapped in cord and covered with pitch. Attached Images

2nd September 2005, 05:42 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	The Maguindanao also had heavy blades. What moves it more in that direction for me than Maranao are the fittings. Filigree and woven silver are more of a Sulu style/expertise and good chased okir work more of a Maranao style/expertise. According to Cato, there was an influence of Sulu style that could be seen in Maguindanao and not so much on Maranao. The mixing of the two influences is more of a Maguindanao trait. These are the reasons I lean toward Maguindanao. On the swaasa question, swaasa is a mixture of gold and other metals to attain different colors. This was not only used in the Philippines, but also in Indonesia and Malaysia. The most common metals mixed with gold were copper and silver. Most of the swaasa that I have seen (and with a friend made) is made with a larger portion of copper and smaller amount of gold. This combonation creates an orange color to the metal at a roughly 7-9 karat gold. A second semi-common form I have seen has a larger amount of silver and lesser amount of gold (same karat) and this changes the color to a bleached gold look. The orange variety was probably more affordable to make, though still quite expensive. I was wondering if the band on top of the pommel is gold layer over silver, brass, or swaasa in a variation of the orange color. Below is a picture of a Maguindanao kris I got in eBay years ago made with ivory, silver, and swaasa done in okir design. It is my avatar, but I thought the larger picture would be easier to see (and much more delightful ). The swaasa is the orange colored okir bands on the hilt. On the pictures of the whole thing, the slender bands are the swaasa that a friend and I made to match those on the hilt (this was the second scabbard I made from scratch, including the okir silver band work). Attached Images

1st September 2005, 02:30 AM	#1
nechesh Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 940	Hey Philkid. Yes, certainly a beautiful kris, though so far no one has addressed your question. I'm not exactly sure what you mean when you ask, is this a ceremonial kris. To me, it appears that this kris was probably owned by a person of high standing, perhaps a datu. In that respect i would say that it is not a common battle kris and may have never taken any blood. Does that mean it is ceremonial. IMO, not necessarily. I suppose i consider a blade to be ceremonial when it is conceived to serve purely that function. I don't think that datus had to do the actual fighting all that often, but i don't think that makes their weapons purely ceremonial. And if personally attacked he would probably draw it and defend himself. There are certain weapons, such as the Indonesian keris sajen which are purely of a ceremonial function. This kris looks far too "fully" functional for that designation.

1st September 2005, 02:54 AM	#2
rahman Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Singapore Posts: 84	The calligraphic style on "Bismillahi rahmani rahim (In the name of God, most Gracious, most Merciful)" is standard Arabic, but the one for "Allahu Akbar (God is great)" probably has strong local Moro influence. It's a very interesting rendition. They were obviously inscribed separately by two different people and probably at two different times. I like the mother of pearl inlay on the sampir... we don't see much of that.

1st September 2005, 05:30 AM	#3
philkid Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philippines Posts: 52	Hi Rahman and Nechesh, thanks for the info you shared. Actually the inlay on the sampir is made from silver not MOP. I agree with you Nechesh that this is a fully functional battle kris since it handles pretty well and the blade is just pretty much made for battle. Do some of other forum members have a sword similar to this one? Kindly share pictures? Thanks.

1st September 2005, 10:08 AM	#5
philkid Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Philippines Posts: 52	Hi Battara my thoughts exactly, this kris is Maguindanaoan due to its long heavy blade. The pommel is made from silver. The yellow metal seems gold to me but I haven't seen swaasa before. Can you elaborate the qualities of a swaasa?

2nd September 2005, 06:01 AM	#8
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	By the way, Zelbone, I like the Maguindanao kris on the left - it has beautiful silver okir inlay on the blade.