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Old 7th May 2012, 07:23 PM   #1
kronckew
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i had a cane much like those, except made out of one piece of ivory. sadly disappeared during one of my moves. i think customs probably nicked it.saw it in a shop when i was in my 20's, loved it & bought it for my old age. now that i almost need one, i don't have it. ah, well. se la vie.
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Old 8th May 2012, 06:05 PM   #2
cornelistromp
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it's not a fist but very beautiful.
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Old 8th May 2012, 06:35 PM   #3
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I believe I have seen this hammer-head in an auction catalogue years ago. If I remember right, it remained unsold because of the very high estimate. Because it has a very short spike it is possibly a splendor-hammer, not used for fighting.

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Old 8th May 2012, 08:03 PM   #4
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it is in the higgins armory museum

Accession Number: 2000.02
Region: Netherlands or northern Germany
Artifact Type: War-hammer head
Date: 1450-1500
Materials: Brass; iron
Weight: 1 lb. 7 oz.
Length:
While swords were effective against unarmored or lightly protected troops, soldiers in full plate armor were well protected against swords. This war hammer, mounted on a wooden shaft, could deliver powerful blows with the hammer-head to crush armor, and a well-aimed strike with the stout beak on the back could penetrate plate steel. Comprised of a long, brass alloy conical socket cast in one piece with two stout, grimacing monster heads surmounted by a carved lion "couchant" above. The socket is fitted with a long, iron belt hook, and the base of the socket has a narrow, file roped molded band. The body has an engraved spiralled banderolle inscribed in "Gothic" characters, the legend reading from the base upwards, "Ave Maria Gracia Plena Helf Maria." The terminals of the ultimate characters are finished in oak leaves. The monster heads are fitted with a crenellated hammer head and a short quadrangular spike, both of iron. The recurving tail of the lion is circularly pierced for a cord. Centered on the front and rear faces below is a heraldic shield charged with a lion "rampant" in carved relief
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Old 8th May 2012, 09:26 PM   #5
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I knew that my remembrance has not abandoned me!

It was for sale at Christie's February 1991 lot 43 with an estimate of GBP 12.000, but is not listed in the result-list.

The height is 165mm, the spike has only a length of c. 23mm till the monsters mouth. This would be enough to penetrate plate, but not to cause serious injuries. Therefore I believe it is a splendor-hammer, not used for fighting.

You know that there are hundreds, if not thousands of two handed processional swords of the 16/17th century, not used for fighting. Surely some processional items from medieval times have also survived. The high quality also indicates that this was a splendor-item.

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Old 9th May 2012, 07:17 AM   #6
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hi swordfish,

I do not agree with you, maces from the same period have no beak at all, and are also real combat weapons!
I also know numerous warhammers with short beak. I think the beak of the first copy zurich is original so short and not broken and reshaped.

further, there is only 2 cm needed to cause fatal injury. see skull from grave battle by Visby;skull damage caused by crossbow points and hammer blows



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Last edited by cornelistromp; 9th May 2012 at 07:48 AM.
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Old 9th May 2012, 01:30 PM   #7
fernando
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A splendor-item, when carried, should be held in hands and not hanging from the belt ?
Meaning that, the belt hook detail, suggests this is an actual weapon ?
It is a splendid piece, in any case; but the price
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Old 9th May 2012, 01:36 PM   #8
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@ Fernando, I agree it is a weapon.

Herewith a example from the klingbeil collection lot 228 (€1600) attributed to the 19thC. this one looks almost similar to the Baegert Altar piece.
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Last edited by cornelistromp; 9th May 2012 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 9th May 2012, 02:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornelistromp
further, there is only 2 cm needed to cause fatal injury. see skull from grave battle by Visby;skull damage caused by crossbow points and hammer blows



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Wow.

That is what I call an overkill.
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Old 9th May 2012, 04:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cornelistromp
hi swordfish,

I do not agree with you, maces from the same period have no beak at all, and are also real combat weapons!
I also know numerous warhammers with short beak. I think the beak of the first copy zurich is original so short and not broken and reshaped.

further, there is only 2 cm needed to cause fatal injury. see skull from grave battle by Visby;skull damage caused by crossbow points and hammer blows



best,
Sorry, but you are completely on the wrong path.

Maces are used to crush armour or bones, but are not made to penetrate armour.
War-hammers are made to penetrate armour!

A skull with sticking arrow-heads only says that the head of this warrior was not protected when he was hit by the arrows. If this warrior would have worn an iron-hat, nothing would have happened. Also a blow with a war-hammer with a beak of 2 cm length would have caused not the lightest scratches on the skull!

The short stump beak of the Zurich example is definitely shortened and reshaped. See the article of Eduard Gessler, former Curator of the Swiss National Museum in ZHWK 1926-1928 page 287.
Equally you ignore all the other depictions of real examples or in art, which all show an acutely pointed longer blade.
If an armourer makes a war-hammer, he can decide to use a short beak of 2cm length or a longer blade of 9cm length. The only reason I can imagine to use a 2 cm beak is , that he knows that the hammer will never be used for fighting.
For the pole-axes with similar heads mentioned in the Christies catalogue, the question was ' A Royal Axe ?' This is a further indication that these were splendor-axes as well as the high quality of the hammer- head.
Many splendor-swords of high quality from the 15th century are known, all were made as gifts and/or for splendor-use, surely not for fighting.

And Fernando, if you carry a splendor-hammer with you, you will surely not hold in in your hands all the day. Sometimes you must put it in your belt!

I have not seen the Dolchstreitkolben at the Klingbeil sale, but from the pictures it looked not good to me. The very low price is also an indication that there were not many bidders who believed that it is genuine.

Attached is a photo of an usual war-hammer of the second half of the 15th century. The short but acutely pointed beak has a length of c. 8cm.

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Last edited by Swordfish; 9th May 2012 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 9th May 2012, 06:10 PM   #11
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it is good occasionally to disagree, but I think you ascribe too much real stuff to ceremonial dress parties and gifts. eg the fine chain mail shirt.
attached a number of examples with a small beak similar to the Higgins hammer.
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Last edited by cornelistromp; 9th May 2012 at 06:52 PM.
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Old 9th May 2012, 06:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swordfish
... And Fernando, if you carry a splendor-hammer with you, you will surely not hold in in your hands all the day. Sometimes you must put it in your belt! ...
One thing i know for sure is that my extremely limited knowledge would not stand opposing your points of view ... neither could i afford to go into an academic discussion but, if you allow me:
If i have the correct conception of of splendor-item, the belt hook seems somehow inappropriate. If the Lord is tired to hold it, will pass it to his page ... a bit like with great swords and other symbolic devices. Its eventual retirement to the belt would take its splendor, defying protocol. In my perspective the belt hook means permanent endurance, going to the field for action.
I dare to say that the war-hammer you now post is something rather distinct. I would hardly compare it to the item under discussion, for what matters. I take this opportunity to post the only "crow-beak" existing in Portugal, of the type often seen in engravings being held by the Aljubarrota hero Dom Nuno Alvares Pereira (end XIV century). This is a weapon intended to be used by infantry against cavalry, in a period when pawns (footmen) started to chalenge kinghts charisma.
(Collection Rainer Daehnhardt).

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