Barbary States Dagger

Aurangzeb · 28th August 2005, 10:23 PM

Hello Jim!

Very very very interesting, thanks for the help. So it's similer to the Ethiopia-Somalia border that is indifined because of various tribes. Since I catalog all my weapons for storage when not being diplayed I decided to put this one down as "Khodmi/mous from Morocco-Algeria region". I wonder why there is a hole drilled though the hilt?

Mark...

Jim McDougall · 28th August 2005, 11:58 PM

Hi Mark,
Exactly right, most of these tribal weapons cannot be pidgeonholed into definite categories because of tribal diffusion that carries them indiscriminately into other regions regardless of geographic boundaries.
I have a friend who in Beja, from Eritrea, while this tribe is typically associated with Sudanese and some Ethiopian areas. The weapons he has shown me as used by 'his people' are the 'X' hilted 'Hadendoa' daggers ( another Sudanese tribe) and the familiar kaskara (which he notes are termed only sa'if). As I have mentioned many times over the years, the term 'kaskara' is only known to western collectors, and is completely unknown in Africa.

Two years ago I did research on the typically termed 'Zanzibar' swords, which I showed were actually a form of Moroccan s'boula and the diffusion of weapons from Morocco via trade routes through Ethiopia and reaching the extremely distant but prominant port of Zanzibar. The debate still continues as to whether these are from Zanzibar, or Morocco as I contend.

The movements of the extremely complex Berber confederation of tribes, trade routes, Tuareg tribes and bedouin make matters even more confounding in establishing identities for many of these weapons across Saharan regions. I think sometimes one must be content with estimating the border regions we have discussed or in many cases using more description such as ' a peasant knife, 'mu', possibly Berber and probably of Saharan regions bordering Morocco and Algeria'.

I like the idea that you are intent on accurately identifying and cataloging the items you are collecting, which appear to be some well represented pieces. Nicely done!

All the best,
Jim

P.S.The hole in the hilt is most likely for the lanyard as described in the previous post, with cord tied over shoulder.

28th August 2005, 10:23 PM	#1
Aurangzeb Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 306	Hello Jim! Very very very interesting, thanks for the help. So it's similer to the Ethiopia-Somalia border that is indifined because of various tribes. Since I catalog all my weapons for storage when not being diplayed I decided to put this one down as "Khodmi/mous from Morocco-Algeria region". I wonder why there is a hole drilled though the hilt? Mark...

28th August 2005, 11:58 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Hi Mark, Exactly right, most of these tribal weapons cannot be pidgeonholed into definite categories because of tribal diffusion that carries them indiscriminately into other regions regardless of geographic boundaries. I have a friend who in Beja, from Eritrea, while this tribe is typically associated with Sudanese and some Ethiopian areas. The weapons he has shown me as used by 'his people' are the 'X' hilted 'Hadendoa' daggers ( another Sudanese tribe) and the familiar kaskara (which he notes are termed only sa'if). As I have mentioned many times over the years, the term 'kaskara' is only known to western collectors, and is completely unknown in Africa. Two years ago I did research on the typically termed 'Zanzibar' swords, which I showed were actually a form of Moroccan s'boula and the diffusion of weapons from Morocco via trade routes through Ethiopia and reaching the extremely distant but prominant port of Zanzibar. The debate still continues as to whether these are from Zanzibar, or Morocco as I contend. The movements of the extremely complex Berber confederation of tribes, trade routes, Tuareg tribes and bedouin make matters even more confounding in establishing identities for many of these weapons across Saharan regions. I think sometimes one must be content with estimating the border regions we have discussed or in many cases using more description such as ' a peasant knife, 'mu', possibly Berber and probably of Saharan regions bordering Morocco and Algeria'. I like the idea that you are intent on accurately identifying and cataloging the items you are collecting, which appear to be some well represented pieces. Nicely done! All the best, Jim P.S.The hole in the hilt is most likely for the lanyard as described in the previous post, with cord tied over shoulder.