Jamdhar katari - a theory

Emanuel · 14th April 2012, 06:18 AM

Here is the old thread I spoke of, Jens' Jamdhar/katar why do we call it a katar?. I recall that the A’in-i-Akbari is actually available online somewhere and I had downloaded a copy, I will look for it.

In regards to the characteristic handle bar, I seem to recall certain old south Indian rapiers and swords with identical handles (see Elgood's Hindu Arms and Ritual: Arms and Armour from India 1400-1865, don't have it with me so can't say which pages).

Emanuel

Marcus · 28th July 2016, 04:33 PM

I think this piece is the very one illustrated in Anthony Tirri's, Islamic Weapons, Maghrib to Mogul. I bought it from Oriental Arms.

Jens Nordlunde · 28th July 2016, 09:41 PM

I once researched the origin of the katar, and took it back to 10th century of Orissa. Search for How Old is the Katar?
I dont think it has anythimg to do with the knife in question I am sorry to say.

ariel · 29th July 2016, 12:06 AM

I have to agree with Jens.

Nothing in common, except for the use of words with a Sanskrit root " kut, kat" relating to cutting, slashing, slicing etc. Omani Kattara, a long-bladed weapon, having nothing in common technically with either of the daggers discussed here, is sharing the same root with them. A Roma word kat means scissors: and Gypsies stem from India.

I think we are not talking about anything structural, engineering etc: I think it is just philology.

Jim McDougall · 29th July 2016, 06:37 PM

Jens is right.....no similarity (obviously), mostly the only connection is via the usual 'name game' that so predisposes so many collectors.

Miguel · 29th July 2016, 07:18 PM

I am like Rick cannot see the connection.
Miguel

Jim McDougall · 29th July 2016, 07:40 PM

We seem to have a consensus ....interesting...like retrying an old case, this one over four years old......this time. Original research on these was about 13 years ago.

Marcus · 28th July 2016, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Indeed this is a textbook example!

Figure 216A, page 296

mariusgmioc · 28th July 2016, 11:09 PM

In my opinion there is absolutely no similarity at all.
Completely different hilts, completely different gripping styles and completely different blade orientation.
Well, they are about as similar as Pata sword is to a Khanda...
But that's just my opinion of course.

PS: My opinion and Jens'.

28th July 2016, 04:33 PM	#2
Marcus Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 420	Text book example I think this piece is the very one illustrated in Anthony Tirri's, Islamic Weapons, Maghrib to Mogul. I bought it from Oriental Arms. Attached Images

14th April 2012, 06:18 AM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Here is the old thread I spoke of, Jens' Jamdhar/katar why do we call it a katar?. I recall that the A’in-i-Akbari is actually available online somewhere and I had downloaded a copy, I will look for it. In regards to the characteristic handle bar, I seem to recall certain old south Indian rapiers and swords with identical handles (see Elgood's Hindu Arms and Ritual: Arms and Armour from India 1400-1865, don't have it with me so can't say which pages). Emanuel

28th July 2016, 09:41 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I once researched the origin of the katar, and took it back to 10th century of Orissa. Search for How Old is the Katar? I dont think it has anythimg to do with the knife in question I am sorry to say.

29th July 2016, 12:06 AM	#4
ariel Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 5,503	I have to agree with Jens. Nothing in common, except for the use of words with a Sanskrit root " kut, kat" relating to cutting, slashing, slicing etc. Omani Kattara, a long-bladed weapon, having nothing in common technically with either of the daggers discussed here, is sharing the same root with them. A Roma word kat means scissors: and Gypsies stem from India. I think we are not talking about anything structural, engineering etc: I think it is just philology.

29th July 2016, 06:37 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,474	Jens is right.....no similarity (obviously), mostly the only connection is via the usual 'name game' that so predisposes so many collectors.

29th July 2016, 07:18 PM	#6
Miguel Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 584	I am like Rick cannot see the connection. Miguel

29th July 2016, 07:40 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,474	We seem to have a consensus ....interesting...like retrying an old case, this one over four years old......this time. Original research on these was about 13 years ago.

28th July 2016, 11:09 PM	#9
mariusgmioc Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Austria Posts: 1,911	In my opinion there is absolutely no similarity at all. Completely different hilts, completely different gripping styles and completely different blade orientation. Well, they are about as similar as Pata sword is to a Khanda... But that's just my opinion of course. PS: My opinion and Jens'.