Jamdhar katari - a theory

[Emanuel]

Hi Stan,

I'll throw a wrinkle at you . I don't recall the source - it might have been in Pant, or in the old catalog about Akbar's weapons, I'm sure it's in one of the older threads here - but it seems that the naming connection is actually the other way around. What we known as "katar" is actually called "jamadhar" and the "katar" bit was erroneously attributed to the wrong knife type. Both knives were in the same drawing palte.

A quick search reveals that "katar" is a derivative of "kutarni" which means knife in Hindi. I think someone mentioned this in the old threads.

So "jamdhar katari" would be a knife of jamdhar type, not a jamdhar of katar type. Either way, "katari" refers to the blade, not the specific handle type.

Note than "jamadar" was a military rank. While it was a minor rank in modern times, I recall reading it was closer to the rank of captain in pre-colonial times.

Just some more thoughts...

Regards,
Emanuel

[Emanuel]

While searching for synonyms for "knife" I also found "chhuri" origin of the word "choora". "ch-huri" and "kutarni" both have feminine ending, while "choora" would have been masculine. This brings back to mind the debate over chooras and karuds. Since both words literally mean "knife" it wouldn't matter what we call them to their original owners/makers.

Emanuel

[Stan S.]

So is the similarity between hilts purely coincidental?

[chregu]

hello together
I find your thinking well!
in my records, "Hermann Historica," it says in Jamdhar Katari: the weapon of tribal Kafirs (Arabic for infidel).
Indo-folk on the southern slopes of the Hindu Kush, to the east of Kashmir .............
is that correct?
If so, you would have to find out what language does this folk, and then compare what knife in this language means. Perhaps it simply means knife?
here are my piece
greeting Chregu

[Jim McDougall]

Very astutely observed Stan, and admire your well thought out approach to learning and understanding more on these weapons. Personally I had not thought of or noticed the parallel bar comparison in the jamadhar katara vs. the katar, one vertically situated, the other transverse.

This is an excellent theory, and by no means is the history of these weapons common knowledge, actually among the more esoteric of the ethnographic fields. It is of course hard to say how much influential bearing these two dagger types have upon each other, and the terminology conundrum is much as always the case with these classifications, extremely complicated.

Emanuel has well noted that these jamadhar katara were discussed on a number of occasions through the years, and it while they appear named as such in Stone, it was indeed Pant who set forth clarification on them. He notes that it was Egerton (1884) who transposed the katar term to the jamadhar, and the error was perpetuated by writers who followed. The compound name was probably an attempt to resolve the matter. It is important to note that this particular type of dagger with broad, parallel pommel guard and crossguard is as Chregu has specified, known to have been used by the Kafirs of the region formerly Kafiristan (from Kipling, "Man Who Would Be King").

These Kafir tribes were animists who were largely dispersed when their homeland was invaded by Afghan Abdur Rahman Khan, and he changed the lands name to Nuristan. Those who dispersed went into regions in the Hindu Kush and Chitral and are known primarily as Kalash, their ancestral tribal group.

There are few references to this tribal group, but there are some which depict thier animist symbols and devices. Im unclear on the language they speak, certainly dialects present in Chitral regions and likely Urdu, Hindi and possibly Lohar.

Again, Stan very well placed thoughts, and the kind of thinking that the serious study of ethnographic arms desperately needs more of !!!
Thank you so much for sharing your observations.

All the very best,
JIm

[DaveA]

Very interesting thread! For comparison, here is the Jamdhar Katari in my collection.

[Rick]

I'm not seeing the connection between the two .