Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 19th March 2012, 09:22 AM   #1
ALEX
Member
 
ALEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 936
Default

also, 19th C mughal handle with some kundan applied much later, likely in 20th C.
Attached Images
 
ALEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2012, 09:45 AM   #2
ALEX
Member
 
ALEX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 936
Default Mughal handle comparison

since we're on a mughal subject - here are few handles in most common mughal horse forms. Just like with new kundan - one thing is when you're looking superficially or on blury pictures, but when you start comparing with authentic mughal, the difference becomes much clearer.
Attached Images
 
ALEX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th March 2012, 08:43 PM   #3
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,272
Default

Yes seeing examples of quality differences is invaluable.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2015, 03:58 PM   #4
Jens Nordlunde
Member
 
Jens Nordlunde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,718
Default

Kundan is a very interesting subject, but few collectors know much about what it is. Some of the reasons could be, that good kundan work is rare, and so very expensive. Another reason could be, that on many of the hilts with gold and gems all of value have been removed and sold seperately.

I recently found somethingg interesting about kundan.
In Treasurers of the World. Jewelled Arts of India in the Age of the Mughals. The Al-Sabah Collection, Kuwait National Museum, the authors Manuel Keene and Salam Kaoukji on page 18 writes about the varieties in stone settings.
It says that kundan was invented, '...Probably in the centuries immediately preceding the birth of Christ...'
I never knew that the technique was that old – did you?


'Kundan, or hyper-purified gold, is beaten into narrow strips of foil and refined to the point at which it becomes ‘tacky’ to room temperature. At this degree of purity, it can actually form a molecular bond when pressure is applied to it by means of steel tools, which are first used to press the foil down around the stones, then to cut, shape and burnish it into any form that the artist may wish.... It can even be used on ivory and wood... There is no evidence that this technique was ever practised anywhere except in India.'
It is most interesting to read that the gold can form a molecular bond with several materials, as no glue would be needed to keep the gold in place, and the soft gold could easily be hammered down around the gem.
Alex, the hilt to the right in post 10 is not a horse, althought it could look like the head of a horse, it is a nilgai - notice the small horns.

Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 27th November 2015 at 04:48 PM.
Jens Nordlunde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2015, 08:44 PM   #5
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,272
Default

Jens I read that too in that catalogue, but don't now anything more about kundan technique.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2015, 03:45 PM   #6
Jens Nordlunde
Member
 
Jens Nordlunde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,718
Default

If I have to be honest - I dont have a clue either. Strange how many people know what the technique means, but very few know how it is done.

Have a look here.
http://www.gemologyonline.com/Forum/...pic.php?t=1754

I just saw this.
http://blog.mirraw.com/2012/09/18/wh...undan-jewelry/

So there seem to be different oppinions of how it was done.

Last edited by Jens Nordlunde; 28th November 2015 at 04:07 PM.
Jens Nordlunde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28th November 2015, 07:47 PM   #7
Battara
EAAF Staff
 
Battara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 7,272
Default

After reading both, I lean towards the first one. Makes more sense, although I have a rough time believing that some amount of heat is not needed.
Battara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2015, 02:18 AM   #8
ariel
Member
 
ariel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 5,503
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde
Alex, the hilt to the right in post 10 is not a horse, althought it could look like the head of a horse, it is a nilgai - notice the small horns.

Jens, these are not horns, these are true inward-turned ears: a specific feature of the so-called Marwari horse.
Attached Images
 
ariel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29th November 2015, 03:46 AM   #9
estcrh
Member
 
estcrh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 1,492
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ariel
Jens, these are not horns, these are true inward-turned ears: a specific feature of the so-called Marwari horse.
The Met has been known to be wrong from time to time when describing items in their collection, this one seems to be described correctly, besides the ears you can see a pair of horns.

http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/...&tabname=label

Dagger with Hilt in the Form of a Blue Bull (Nilgai)

Object Name: Dagger
Date: ca. 1640
Geography: India
Culture: Islamic
Medium: Hilt: Nephrite Blade: Watered steel
Dimensions: H. 15 in. (38.1 cm)
Classification: Stone
Credit Line: Gift of Alice Heeramaneck, in memory of Nasli Heeramaneck, 1985
Accession Number: 1985.58a, b

On view in Gallery 463

Quote:
The weaponry produced at the Mughal court reflects the same refinement as other portable arts. Daggers such as this one were sometimes awarded to officers who had distinguished themselves in military victory and were worn at court as dress accessories indicating royal favor. Animal-headed hilts were especially favored, and the realism of their rendering conveys the keen appreciation for nature by Mughal artists.
On this dagger, the hilt portrays a nilgai, or blue bull, one of the most beautiful animals found in India, and terminates at the base with a leafy scroll and lotus flower. Carved from a bluish-green nephrite that approximates the color of the animal, this hilt not only demonstrates the artist's thorough mastery of hard-stone carving, but also displays a level of accuracy and sensitivity that suggest close observation of a model, perhaps one of the captive animals kept in the imperial zoo.
High resolution image.
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...4ab58015ac.jpg
Attached Images
 
estcrh is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.