Ethiopian alternative straight swords

Iain · 12th March 2012, 09:53 AM

Hi Jim,

Thanks for the details on the strange kaskara pommels.

The second sword is more interesting to me as I honestly can't place from an outside source. Strange form.

Cheers,

Iain

Jim McDougall · 12th March 2012, 07:10 PM

I agree Iain, the blade seems to favor the kaskara blades we were looking at which were Clauberg type from 1870s or so with that central ellipse fuller, but hard to say for sure. The hilt with those apertures at the crossguard ends is curious as well, and of course reminds me of something I cant place, it almost looks like a bayonet kind of hilt.

All the best,
Jim

TVV · 12th March 2012, 08:08 PM

Jim and Iain,
To me the hilt of the Ethiopian regalia sword looks very much like the hilt of a sword sold through Hermann Historica, pictures saved in this thread:

http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ight=historica

There, it was described as a late medieval sword from Egypt. I agree with Jim that the single fullered blade looks very much like a Solingen made blade from the mid 19th century, but the hilt may be quite older. Or, the "mameluke" sword may be from a later period.

Regards,
Teodor

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 13th March 2012, 07:33 AM

Salaams Iain ~ I am interested in the influence if any of Schiavona blades on African and Red Sea regional weapons. The double edge style are quite similar.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Iain · 13th March 2012, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Iain ~ I am interested in the influence if any of Schiavona blades on African and Red Sea regional weapons. The double edge style are quite similar.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Ibrahiim, double edged straight swords, like the one Teodor linked, have been in use by the Mamluks well before schiavonas.

Teodor, I think you might have something with that link, the guard style is remarkably similar and with these swords I've seen a variety of flattish pommels used. There is a long history of contact between Mamluk Egypt and Ethiopia. Most of it not at all friendly! This makes for interesting reading.

Jim, this particular blade has the wrong profile for a German trade blade, at least any that I've seen. The fuller is too long and narrow. Whereas the typical export patterns had broader fullers and much shorter. The edge geometry is also wrong for a trade blade I think, this is much flatter. For those reasons I am really starting to think Teodor hit the nail on the head and this is quite possibly a Mamluk sword.

Cheers,

Iain

Ibrahiim al Balooshi · 13th March 2012, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

Ibrahiim, double edged straight swords, like the one Teodor linked, have been in use by the Mamluks well before schiavonas.

Teodor, I think you might have something with that link, the guard style is remarkably similar and with these swords I've seen a variety of flattish pommels used. There is a long history of contact between Mamluk Egypt and Ethiopia. Most of it not at all friendly! This makes for interesting reading.

Jim, this particular blade has the wrong profile for a German trade blade, at least any that I've seen. The fuller is too long and narrow. Whereas the typical export patterns had broader fullers and much shorter. The edge geometry is also wrong for a trade blade I think, this is much flatter. For those reasons I am really starting to think Teodor hit the nail on the head and this is quite possibly a Mamluk sword.

Cheers,

Iain

Salaams Iain ~ I quite agree and according to the museum in Istanbul it belongs to Ottoman then Mamluke and before that back to Abbasiid and before that to their respected Greek influence ( they were fanatical about most things Greek)... It is related to the Abbasiid weapon to which I link the Old Omani Battle Sword by timeline and design. I am simply probing the Schiavona link in addition.. I hope thats reasonable.
Salaams,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Jim McDougall · 14th March 2012, 03:42 AM

Excellent call Iain! I think I must be getting too cautious in my old age

as I hesitated to be that optimistic, but looking at it, your astute eye has pretty well caught the key points. I think that with that being the case this could very well be an old Mamluk blade.
While many of these swords were taken by the Ottomans to Istanbul, there were certainly many which diffused into surrounding regions over time.

All the best,
Jim

12th March 2012, 09:53 AM	#1
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,708	Hi Jim, Thanks for the details on the strange kaskara pommels. The second sword is more interesting to me as I honestly can't place from an outside source. Strange form. Cheers, Iain

12th March 2012, 07:10 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	I agree Iain, the blade seems to favor the kaskara blades we were looking at which were Clauberg type from 1870s or so with that central ellipse fuller, but hard to say for sure. The hilt with those apertures at the crossguard ends is curious as well, and of course reminds me of something I cant place, it almost looks like a bayonet kind of hilt. All the best, Jim

12th March 2012, 08:08 PM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,660	Jim and Iain, To me the hilt of the Ethiopian regalia sword looks very much like the hilt of a sword sold through Hermann Historica, pictures saved in this thread: http://vikingsword.com/vb/showthread...ight=historica There, it was described as a late medieval sword from Egypt. I agree with Jim that the single fullered blade looks very much like a Solingen made blade from the mid 19th century, but the hilt may be quite older. Or, the "mameluke" sword may be from a later period. Regards, Teodor

13th March 2012, 07:33 AM	#4
Ibrahiim al Balooshi Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Buraimi Oman, on the border with the UAE Posts: 4,408	Salaams Iain ~ I am interested in the influence if any of Schiavona blades on African and Red Sea regional weapons. The double edge style are quite similar. Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi

14th March 2012, 03:42 AM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Excellent call Iain! I think I must be getting too cautious in my old age as I hesitated to be that optimistic, but looking at it, your astute eye has pretty well caught the key points. I think that with that being the case this could very well be an old Mamluk blade. While many of these swords were taken by the Ottomans to Istanbul, there were certainly many which diffused into surrounding regions over time. All the best, Jim