The 4 letter "B"-word

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams Stan. Great pity. You were, however,asking for references and study so ... I typed into Forum Search ....Bhuj ... and Jens Nordlunde has a brilliant thread in there entitled Differences in Indian weapons. It might help with chosing quality weapons therefor possibly save the problem of returning items etc.
Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Stan S.]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Stan. Great pity. You were, however,asking for references and study so ... I typed into Forum Search ....Bhuj ... and Jens Nordlunde has a brilliant thread in there entitled Differences in Indian weapons. It might help with chosing quality weapons therefor possibly save the problem of returning items etc.
Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Dear sir, I am familiar with the thread you are referring to. And while I agree with your remark on the weapons quality, a collector must also take into account his personal budgetary constraints. Sadly, I am unable to afford many of the gold and jewel encrusted museum pieces that are ocasionally offered for sale, and must resort to obtaining simpler versions designed for fighting rather than display/parade/gift purposes. In doing so, I came across quite a few treasures. Still, I find that the quality of the weapon and its condition are not always one and the same.

The item in question turned out to have damaged rivets both holding the elephant head in place and the one securing the blade. Neither of which was mentioned in the description. Plus, the portion of the haft that fits inside the head appears to have been bent. This could be a sign of neglect while in the hands of the previous owner or genuine damage from the item being used in its day. Such damage is possible even with a weapon of highest quality, such as the downside of buying on-line I was actually quite pleased with the quality of this simple bhuj but chose not to be responsible for repairing the damage, thus it is going back to the seller.

[David]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Stan. Great pity. You were, however,asking for references and study so ... I typed into Forum Search ....Bhuj ... and Jens Nordlunde has a brilliant thread in there entitled Differences in Indian weapons. It might help with chosing quality weapons therefor possibly save the problem of returning items etc.
Regards Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

I presume this is the thread you were referencing. I have placed a link here to make the access a bit easier.
http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=bhuj
I am also attaching the images that Stan linked to above. A good practice since these links my well disappear at any time. I have also added a few more images from other sources, just to add to the collection.

[laEspadaAncha]

Hi Stan,

I don't know if you've already dropped your bhuj in the mail for its return journey, but FWIW, I am of the opinion the design of the weapon is inherently flawed, and in my own lone example, there is a little 'battle rattle' at the join between the blade and the hilt, IMO a natural consequence of securing a short (or virtually no) tang blade to the haft with a single rivet...

[templarnight]

Looking at some of the pictures posted above it seems that they dont have a 'tang' either.

They also seem to be secured by a rivet.

Is this not correct then?

[Jim McDougall]

These are intriguing weapons, and it seems reasonably uncommon as far as collectible arms offerings, and it is disappointing that this example showed up in less than expected condition. I think what Ibrahiim has noted is intended toward the general readership, and like myself I often think of these threads as informational in that respect. The point is not directed in particular but reminding readers that the material in these now archived discussions are often helpful in revealing certain characteristics or things to watch for in acquiring certain item types.
Chris has made an extremely well placed point in this regard, noting that these apparantly are inclined toward certain kinds of wear and defect by thier design and dynamics of thier use.

Personally, in my collecting days even though my budget certainly limited my horizons in what I could attain as far as types of weapons, I actually preferred the worn and often battered examples which the upper hierarchy of collectors termed derisively 'dogs dinner'. To me, these worn and battered old warriors had stories to tell that the 'museum quality' decorated and festooned items usually did not. The great book by Tony Tirri which I consider a goldmine for collectors is just that because it beautifully illustrates and classifies these very kinds of weapons in the types and condition in which they typically are found by collectors.

An arms collectors most important weapon is his knowledge, and that was the point being made. In most cases I think sellers do try to accurately describe thier items (we all of course know of exceptions) however it is important to watch carefully for key elements which may have been omitted in being described. I know I certainly came into some terrible surprises in obtaining some items and soundly learned what to watch for the next time. The members here have offered valuable information in these regards in the profound archives stored in what has become encyclopedic in information.


All the best,
Jim

[laEspadaAncha]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Personally, in my collecting days even though my budget certainly limited my horizons in what I could attain as far as types of weapons, I actually preferred the worn and often battered examples which the upper hierarchy of collectors termed derisively 'dogs dinner'. To me, these worn and battered old warriors had stories to tell that the 'museum quality' decorated and festooned items usually did not. The great book by Tony Tirri which I consider a goldmine for collectors is just that because it beautifully illustrates and classifies these very kinds of weapons in the types and condition in which they typically are found by collectors

Hi Jim...

While I have been fortunate one one or two occasions to acquire a presentation-grade example of a given weapon form, as a "regular guy" who collects on a modest budget, I wholeheartedly appreciate the value attached to these workman's examples by their original owners...

While more flashy, 'blingy' examples may look much, much richer and command a far greater price in the marketplace, the 'average' guy probably appreciated that one 'worker' knife or sword far more than the wealthiest man who could commission or purchase another piece on a whim, as it was likely to be the only one he had...

Best Regards,

Chris

[Stan S.]

Sorry guys, the item was shipped yesterday. I hope to come across another one in the future, hopefully in a better condition