Sudanese small shield with spear tip ?? on eBay

[Sajen]

Hello David,

never seen something like this before. Is it a tortoiseshell covered with leather? The patina at the handle seems to be great.

Regards,

Detlef

[Rick]

I sure would like to see the critter that shell came from .

[Sajen]

On page 94/95 from the Benitez & Barbier book "Shields" is shown a shield from Sudan made from tortoise carapace.
Regards,

Detlef

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Sajen

On page 94/95 from the Benitez & Barbier book "Shields" is shown a shield from Sudan made from tortoise carapace.
Regards,

Detlef

Nicely done response Detlef!!! and with source, excellent match.
That is a great book on shields, which unfortunately I dont have, but it seems has the most comprehensive references on shields, and one of the few books on the topic.

Thanks for posting this David, something I had never seen before, another for the notes

All the best,
Jim

[Sajen]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Nicely done response Detlef!!! and with source, excellent match.
That is a great book on shields, which unfortunately I dont have, but it seems has the most comprehensive references on shields, and one of the few books on the topic.
All the best,
Jim

Thank you Jim. This book is a must-have for collectors of shields, a very good reference book of this topic.

Regards,

Detlef

[Indianajones]

Hi all, actually the 'ebay-shield' is from a kind of swampturtle (like a seaturle) that naturally has a skin covered boneshield; the shield from Detlef's book is the top of the turtleshield and the 'ebay-shield' is the bellyside of this same type of turtle.
They do only exist in those lakes/swamps in a particular area in East- Africa (dont know the specific details).
Most shields -which by most are not reckognised as such- the attached stick n bands are removed and sold as 'decorative turtleshield' as I have seen a few (like from the book). Also'ordinary turtleshield were used as shields sometimes.
So no skin has manually been drawn over the shield or like that. Hope this clears ONE detail about the <still quite interesting!> object

Cheers Wouter

[Sajen]

Wow, great input! After a closer look to the ebay shield, yes this is the bellyside of tortoise carapace. Wouter, you are sure that it is the same kind of tortoise?

Regards,

Detlef

[katana]

Originally Posted by Indianajones

Hi all, actually the 'ebay-shield' is from a kind of swampturtle (like a seaturle) that naturally has a skin covered boneshield; the shield from Detlef's book is the top of the turtleshield and the 'ebay-shield' is the bellyside of this same type of turtle.
They do only exist in those lakes/swamps in a particular area in East- Africa (dont know the specific details).
Most shields -which by most are not reckognised as such- the attached stick n bands are removed and sold as 'decorative turtleshield' as I have seen a few (like from the book). Also'ordinary turtleshield were used as shields sometimes.
So no skin has manually been drawn over the shield or like that. Hope this clears ONE detail about the <still quite interesting!> object

Cheers Wouter

Hi Wouter,
thanks for the info.....I did consider that the shell was the plastron (lower shell) .....but for one problem. The lower shell on all turtles are either flat or concave (males usually concave to help them stay on their 'lady' during mating.) As the scales are on the outside of the shell the one used as a shield is convex. A possibility is that the shell was 'shaped' by heat ....similar to the technique to shape horn ??


Best David

[katana]

Originally Posted by Sajen

Hello David,

never seen something like this before. Is it a tortoiseshell covered with leather? The patina at the handle seems to be great.

Regards,

Detlef

Hi Detlef,
I believe leather covered turtle shell. Presumedly damp leather was fixed over the shell and as it dried, contracted tightly around it.
Thanks for posting the picture of the toitoise shelled example

Originally Posted by Rick

I sure would like to see the critter that shell came from .

I would imagine, probably less than the "critter" wanted to see the guy that thought 'you'd make a good shield'

Originally Posted by colin henshaw

Hi

Its real enough - one of those unusual concoctions thrown up in the Mahdist period, most likely. I've seen a number....

Hi Colin,
thanks for the input. Price seemed excessive to me though.


Kind Regards David