Translation of Indian blade inscription

laEspadaAncha · 24th February 2012, 04:26 PM

FWIW, Kannada is my wife's mother tongue, and while she admittedly does not fluently read it, she did grow up speaking it and surrounded by the language...

In the 3 1/2 years I've lived in India - all but maybe six months cumulative in Karnataka - I found I mistook Dravidian scripts for one another as often as I got them right.

Here's a link to the syllabic characters of the Kannada alphabet:

http://www.omniglot.com/writing/kannada.htm

ETA: Considering there is an unquestionable similarity to at least a couple characters in the inscription, maybe another dialect or colloquial language that borrows from Kannada script, e.g., Konkani?

Jens Nordlunde · 24th February 2012, 04:51 PM

I am no specialist in any of the Indian languages, but could it, perhaps, be written in an old dialect - not used any more?

A. G. Maisey · 24th February 2012, 09:24 PM

Thank you for your interest gentlemen.

Jens, my friend will not permit a photo of the entire piece to be published, I have already asked for this.

I know this dagger, it is a peshkabz form, acutely tapered, straight T back blade, greenstone, possibly jade hilt. A very common form, nothing out of the ordinary, and you could pick half a dozen books that show this sort of thing and see this form.

I most sincerely doubt that a photo of the entire piece would assist in any way, but I do agree, it would be more interesting if I could post a pic of the piece concerned. I'll ask again, but even if he agrees it might be a while before it could go up, as he leaves for the UK today.

Incidentally Jens, since we did not attend high school together, nor do we belong to the same club, could I request that you address me as "Alan"? Thanks.

Jens Nordlunde · 24th February 2012, 09:36 PM

Hi Alan,
So, your friend does not like to show the dagger, which is, of course, his privilege, but then you must/can not expect others to tell all they know.
Should your friend change his mind, I am not sure that I will, so maybe others will/can help - sorry.
Jens

A. G. Maisey · 25th February 2012, 01:00 AM

Jens, the way in which a person shares the information he or she may have is a very strong indication of the depth of that person's knowledge and also of his character.

For instance, I have known and still know a number of academics who cling tenuously to their tenures, and who possess shallow knowledge and very mean characters. These people are reluctant to share any information at all.

I also know people who are at the very top of their professions who openly share all and everything they know, except the perhaps the one or two percent of their knowledge that places them above the drones.

On the very few occasions when I do lodge a query in this Forum I expect nothing at all. If somebody with superior knowledge to my own in a particular field chooses to answer, it is his decision to do so, or not.

Personally, I do not see the involvement of anybody in this discussion group of being on the basis of "you give me this, and I'll give you that" . Every day of my life I answer questions from people all over the world, people whom I have never met and am never likely to meet. If I know an answer to the question, I give it, if I do not know I say so.

The question I have lodged concerns script, nothing more, nothing less.

If it can be read by somebody, an answer will be greatly appreciated.

The script has nothing at all to do with the object upon which that script has been placed. All the information necessary to answer the question has already been given.

This idea of yours that if a full photograph of somebody's possession is not given, then an answer to a straight forward, though apparently obscure question should not be given, I do indeed find very peculiar.

But then we all live by different standards, don't we?

Jens Nordlunde · 25th February 2012, 09:24 AM

Alan, it is commonly used on this forum, when a detail of a weapon is shown for discussion, also to show the whole weapon. The detail shown does not help me to find out from where the dagger comes, as my knowledge of the language shown on the detail, is very little, and does not give me a clear indication from where it comes, a picture of the whole dagger might have helped.

I use a lot of time researching and answering questions from other collectors, so your comment on my lack of help in this case, is taken with a

.

Jens

A. G. Maisey · 25th February 2012, 11:49 AM

Jens, your reaction to my overly polite post is very surprising to me.
I have not commented in even the slightest degree upon your assistance, nor lack of it.

I have commented in general terms upon what I perceive to be a rather peculiar attitude. I am extremely familiar with this attitude, and it is one that has always mystified me.

I am also familiar with the usual practice of posting a photo of an entire piece, and the sticky that requests this, and this was the reason for my apology for being unable to comply with this practice. I would have thought that no further comment would have been required in regard to this.

The query I posted concerns script. Only script, nothing else. The fact that it is on a weapon is totally irrelevant, it might just as well have been on a piece of paper. If it can be read, it can be read: if cannot be read, then it cannot be read.

My friend was not asking to be told where this object was from, nor what it was called, nor how old it was, he was simply asking if the script could be read. It appears it cannot be read. End of story.

I thank you most sincerely for your efforts in attempting to read this script, but I accept that this is beyond you, as many things are equally beyond myself, and all of us. Since you cannot read it, then it is clear that you are not withholding any assistance, so how is it possible that I could make any sort of remark that referred to your lack of assistance? I'm sure you have done the best you could, and again I thank you for your efforts.

24th February 2012, 04:26 PM	#1
laEspadaAncha Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 608	FWIW, Kannada is my wife's mother tongue, and while she admittedly does not fluently read it, she did grow up speaking it and surrounded by the language... In the 3 1/2 years I've lived in India - all but maybe six months cumulative in Karnataka - I found I mistook Dravidian scripts for one another as often as I got them right. Here's a link to the syllabic characters of the Kannada alphabet: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/kannada.htm ETA: Considering there is an unquestionable similarity to at least a couple characters in the inscription, maybe another dialect or colloquial language that borrows from Kannada script, e.g., Konkani? Last edited by laEspadaAncha; 24th February 2012 at 04:39 PM.

24th February 2012, 04:51 PM	#2
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	I am no specialist in any of the Indian languages, but could it, perhaps, be written in an old dialect - not used any more?

24th February 2012, 09:24 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,017	Thank you for your interest gentlemen. Jens, my friend will not permit a photo of the entire piece to be published, I have already asked for this. I know this dagger, it is a peshkabz form, acutely tapered, straight T back blade, greenstone, possibly jade hilt. A very common form, nothing out of the ordinary, and you could pick half a dozen books that show this sort of thing and see this form. I most sincerely doubt that a photo of the entire piece would assist in any way, but I do agree, it would be more interesting if I could post a pic of the piece concerned. I'll ask again, but even if he agrees it might be a while before it could go up, as he leaves for the UK today. Incidentally Jens, since we did not attend high school together, nor do we belong to the same club, could I request that you address me as "Alan"? Thanks.

24th February 2012, 09:36 PM	#4
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Alan, So, your friend does not like to show the dagger, which is, of course, his privilege, but then you must/can not expect others to tell all they know. Should your friend change his mind, I am not sure that I will, so maybe others will/can help - sorry. Jens

25th February 2012, 01:00 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,017	Jens, the way in which a person shares the information he or she may have is a very strong indication of the depth of that person's knowledge and also of his character. For instance, I have known and still know a number of academics who cling tenuously to their tenures, and who possess shallow knowledge and very mean characters. These people are reluctant to share any information at all. I also know people who are at the very top of their professions who openly share all and everything they know, except the perhaps the one or two percent of their knowledge that places them above the drones. On the very few occasions when I do lodge a query in this Forum I expect nothing at all. If somebody with superior knowledge to my own in a particular field chooses to answer, it is his decision to do so, or not. Personally, I do not see the involvement of anybody in this discussion group of being on the basis of "you give me this, and I'll give you that" . Every day of my life I answer questions from people all over the world, people whom I have never met and am never likely to meet. If I know an answer to the question, I give it, if I do not know I say so. The question I have lodged concerns script, nothing more, nothing less. If it can be read by somebody, an answer will be greatly appreciated. The script has nothing at all to do with the object upon which that script has been placed. All the information necessary to answer the question has already been given. This idea of yours that if a full photograph of somebody's possession is not given, then an answer to a straight forward, though apparently obscure question should not be given, I do indeed find very peculiar. But then we all live by different standards, don't we?

25th February 2012, 09:24 AM	#6
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Alan, it is commonly used on this forum, when a detail of a weapon is shown for discussion, also to show the whole weapon. The detail shown does not help me to find out from where the dagger comes, as my knowledge of the language shown on the detail, is very little, and does not give me a clear indication from where it comes, a picture of the whole dagger might have helped. I use a lot of time researching and answering questions from other collectors, so your comment on my lack of help in this case, is taken with a . Jens

25th February 2012, 11:49 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,017	Jens, your reaction to my overly polite post is very surprising to me. I have not commented in even the slightest degree upon your assistance, nor lack of it. I have commented in general terms upon what I perceive to be a rather peculiar attitude. I am extremely familiar with this attitude, and it is one that has always mystified me. I am also familiar with the usual practice of posting a photo of an entire piece, and the sticky that requests this, and this was the reason for my apology for being unable to comply with this practice. I would have thought that no further comment would have been required in regard to this. The query I posted concerns script. Only script, nothing else. The fact that it is on a weapon is totally irrelevant, it might just as well have been on a piece of paper. If it can be read, it can be read: if cannot be read, then it cannot be read. My friend was not asking to be told where this object was from, nor what it was called, nor how old it was, he was simply asking if the script could be read. It appears it cannot be read. End of story. I thank you most sincerely for your efforts in attempting to read this script, but I accept that this is beyond you, as many things are equally beyond myself, and all of us. Since you cannot read it, then it is clear that you are not withholding any assistance, so how is it possible that I could make any sort of remark that referred to your lack of assistance? I'm sure you have done the best you could, and again I thank you for your efforts.