A turn off pistol

Matchlock · 12th February 2012, 04:01 PM

Hi 'Nando,

Nice percussion pocket pistol with folding trigger, and in charming patina as well!

I cannot tell you either whether the Rabones were makers or retailers, only that Edward & John Rabone are recorded to have lived in Birmingham, 22 New Buildings, Price St., vom 1866-68.

Is the proof mark that of Birmingham or London? A London address is not given in my sources.

Considering the fact that in those years the firearms market was crowded with cheap Belgian products which were sold to many retailers, with or - preferably! - without Liège proof marks, there is a certain chance that the Rabone Bros. did not manufacture them.

Best,
Michl

Berkley · 12th February 2012, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Is the proof mark that of Birmingham or London?

It appears to be the Birmingham proof mark.

fernando · 12th February 2012, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

... Is the proof mark that of Birmingham or London?

Both, Michl ... as per attached picture.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

... and there were lots of Liege products pouring into these markets...

I guess not in this case, Jim ... judging by the unequivocal proof marks, i'd say

.

Matchlock · 13th February 2012, 03:39 PM

Cool, 'Nando,

Proof marks of two different cities?!

That seems to be a rare instance!

m

fernando · 13th February 2012, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Cool, 'Nando,

Proof marks of two different cities?!

That seems to be a rare instance!

m

Oh, no.
They used to often do that; maybe firearms qualification saw different standars in either proof house and therefore dealers saw convenience to prepare the guns to be sold everywhere in the country.

See post #30 here, for one:

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=edward

Matchlock · 13th February 2012, 04:50 PM

Just another proof of the fact that 19th c. arms are definitely none of my focal points.

Michl

Fernando K · 13th February 2012, 07:01 PM

los punzones son legítimos, de Birmingham, las letras B, P, C y V bajo unos cetros coronados. Te pregunto, si ha mas de ser de cañón desenroscable (turn-off) es de "bala forzada".
Integran mi humilde coleccion, pistolas de chispa (flint) y de percusión, disparador escamoteable (concealed trigger), box-lock, pero con un costado postizo. Particularmente con la de percusión, solo tiene como punzones un número 21, en el cañó (barrel)y en el cuerpo. La de chispa es de "bala forzada", porque hay bastante espacio en el cuerpo, y se debe colocar la bala antes de roscar el cañón.
Apenas tenga las fotos las voy a subir al foro para que se vea la diferencia.

Afectuosamente. Fernando K

the proof marks are legitimate, of Birmingham, the letters B, P, C and V on a scepter crowned. I ask you if, besides the barrel being unscreweable (turn-off) is it also "forced bullet" ?
Included in my humble collection are flintlock and percussion examples, with concealed trigger, and box-lock, but with a detachable side. Particularly in the percussion one, the only marks are the number 21 in the barrel and in the body. The flintlock example is "forced bullet", because there is enough space in the chamber, to place the ball before threading the barrel.
As soon as i have the photos i will upload them, so that you can see the difference.

Affectionately. Fernando K

fernando · 13th February 2012, 10:13 PM

Hi Fernando,
I wouldn't know how to differentiate 'forced' bullet to 'normal' bullet, just by looking to both the chamber and the barrel. I can tell you that this pistol has a smooth bore (no rifling), so probably is not a forced bullet system.
I will expect to see pictures of your examples the soonest you can.
The number 21 in both barrel and body of your percussion pistol could be a code, to screw the right barrel to the right body, when turn off pistols are available in more than one unit, in pairs or more (like pepperboxes = avisperos), to avoid screwing the wrong parts.

12th February 2012, 04:01 PM	#1
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi 'Nando, Nice percussion pocket pistol with folding trigger, and in charming patina as well! I cannot tell you either whether the Rabones were makers or retailers, only that Edward & John Rabone are recorded to have lived in Birmingham, 22 New Buildings, Price St., vom 1866-68. Is the proof mark that of Birmingham or London? A London address is not given in my sources. Considering the fact that in those years the firearms market was crowded with cheap Belgian products which were sold to many retailers, with or - preferably! - without Liège proof marks, there is a certain chance that the Rabone Bros. did not manufacture them. Best, Michl Last edited by Matchlock; 13th February 2012 at 03:39 PM.

13th February 2012, 07:01 PM	#7
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	los punzones son legítimos, de Birmingham, las letras B, P, C y V bajo unos cetros coronados. Te pregunto, si ha mas de ser de cañón desenroscable (turn-off) es de "bala forzada". Integran mi humilde coleccion, pistolas de chispa (flint) y de percusión, disparador escamoteable (concealed trigger), box-lock, pero con un costado postizo. Particularmente con la de percusión, solo tiene como punzones un número 21, en el cañó (barrel)y en el cuerpo. La de chispa es de "bala forzada", porque hay bastante espacio en el cuerpo, y se debe colocar la bala antes de roscar el cañón. Apenas tenga las fotos las voy a subir al foro para que se vea la diferencia. Afectuosamente. Fernando K the proof marks are legitimate, of Birmingham, the letters B, P, C and V on a scepter crowned. I ask you if, besides the barrel being unscreweable (turn-off) is it also "forced bullet" ? Included in my humble collection are flintlock and percussion examples, with concealed trigger, and box-lock, but with a detachable side. Particularly in the percussion one, the only marks are the number 21 in the barrel and in the body. The flintlock example is "forced bullet", because there is enough space in the chamber, to place the ball before threading the barrel. As soon as i have the photos i will upload them, so that you can see the difference. Affectionately. Fernando K Last edited by fernando; 14th February 2012 at 03:14 PM.

13th February 2012, 03:39 PM	#4
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Cool, 'Nando, Proof marks of two different cities?! That seems to be a rare instance! m

13th February 2012, 04:50 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Just another proof of the fact that 19th c. arms are definitely none of my focal points. Michl

13th February 2012, 10:13 PM	#8
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Hi Fernando, I wouldn't know how to differentiate 'forced' bullet to 'normal' bullet, just by looking to both the chamber and the barrel. I can tell you that this pistol has a smooth bore (no rifling), so probably is not a forced bullet system. I will expect to see pictures of your examples the soonest you can. The number 21 in both barrel and body of your percussion pistol could be a code, to screw the right barrel to the right body, when turn off pistols are available in more than one unit, in pairs or more (like pepperboxes = avisperos), to avoid screwing the wrong parts.