Is gold or suasa 'better'?

Jean · 10th February 2012, 05:00 PM

In the mid-1990's in Jakarta I was proposed an old Solonese (kraton?) kris with a luk blade supposedly made from suasa and at a reasonable price (gold was cheap at that time). Unfortunately I did not buy it because my wife did not like it but I still regret it a bit although with time I tend to believe that the alloy was rather gongso with some gold but with a lower gold content than in suasa.
Regards

A. G. Maisey · 10th February 2012, 09:18 PM

Interesting question.

If we say "better", my immediate question is "better in what way"?

What we know is that gold is most certainly the very best and most highly regarded material to adorn a blade, and it is the material of choice to calm the disturbing or evil influences that may inhabit a blade.

If suasa is preferred over gold as a material for dress purposes, my own feeling would be that those who say or indicate they prefer it are making a virtue of necessity.

In the culture of Jawa , gold holds a place above all else as a material of honour. Historically rulers used to give gold in huge quantities to buy support.

Within Javanese society gold has historically been used as the measure of all value:- a debt of currency will be expressed as a weight of gold, and you repay the gold weight extressed as currency when you repay the debt. This has been the case for a very long time.

Gold is firmly fixed in the Javanese mind as the only thing of true worth --- even my own daughter-in-law will not wear any jewellery unless it is gold. I know people whom I consider to be relatively poor who will save every spare rupiah until they have sufficient to buy some gold, and along the way, they will refuse to wear costume jewellery, because if they can't wear gold, they will wear nothing.

If Javanese royalty preferred suasa to gold, I feel that perhaps a few stories may have been invented to justify that preference.

VANDOO · 12th February 2012, 07:32 PM

ITS THE SAME IN MANY COUNTRYS PURE GOLD IS ALL THAT IS CONSIDERED ( GOLD) AND OFTEN MAKES UP A WOMANS DOWERY ALL IN THE FORM OF JEWELRY. AMERICA IS ONE OF THE FEW COUNTRYS WHERE 14 CARRAT OR 18 C. IS CONSIDERED GOLD. FOR TRUE VALUE "GOOD AS GOLD " SAYS IT ALL.
SUASA IS MORE DURABLE THAN GOLD AND WOULD DEFORM AND WEAR LESS THAN PURE GOLD SO WOULD BE MUCH MORE PRACTICAL FOR USE ON WEAPONS OR ITEMS EXPOSED TO WEAR. NO DOUBT THE USE OF PURE GOLD ON WEAPONS IN SOME COUNTRIES MAY HAVE BEEN RESTRICTED TO THE ROYAL FAMILYS. IN SUCH CASES THE USE OF SUASA MAY HAVE BEEN PERMITTED TO SHOW WEALTH AND RANK AND TO LOOK GOOD.

FOR THOSE WHO COULD AFFORD IT PURE GOLD HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE MOST DESIRABLE. PERHAPS SOMEONE LONG AGO WHO EITHER DID NOT HAVE THE STATUS OR WEALTH TO POSESS GOLD STARTED THE RUMOR THAT SUASA WAS BETTER BECAUSE THATS THE BEST HE COULD DO.

I AM CURIOUS AS TO WHAT YOUR AVATAR IS LOEDJOE PERHAPS A POST ON IT WOULD BE OF INTREST TO OTHERS AS WELL AS MYSELF.

Loedjoe · 13th February 2012, 09:48 PM

Vandoo - I have posted a response to your query about the item shown in my Avatar, on the Ethnographic Weapons Forum, under 'parang betino'.

Best wishes, Loedjoe

Maurice · 24th December 2015, 01:02 PM

just came up with this interesting suassa text.

It is strange though that they describe it so extendedly with name of the Javanese emperor etc. It was a very early writing, so it might be true back than, and not written and made up by the writer just to put down some text.

I could imagine there is some kind of truth in this, as there are not much Javanese weapons with suassa I know off. Maybe back than there was a period that suassa was in fashion more than gold in Java, and maybe also only to wear by a few noblemen, and not for the regular people..?
This could explain why there is more gold find on Javanese weapons as suassa.

Just a guess,

Maurice

Rick · 24th December 2015, 03:41 PM

There's no text in your post to read Maurice.

Maurice · 24th December 2015, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

There's no text in your post to read Maurice.

I can read the text on my computer though Rick...

Let me know if still not visible, than I will post it again.

10th February 2012, 05:00 PM	#1
Jean Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,740	In the mid-1990's in Jakarta I was proposed an old Solonese (kraton?) kris with a luk blade supposedly made from suasa and at a reasonable price (gold was cheap at that time). Unfortunately I did not buy it because my wife did not like it but I still regret it a bit although with time I tend to believe that the alloy was rather gongso with some gold but with a lower gold content than in suasa. Regards

10th February 2012, 09:18 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Interesting question. If we say "better", my immediate question is "better in what way"? What we know is that gold is most certainly the very best and most highly regarded material to adorn a blade, and it is the material of choice to calm the disturbing or evil influences that may inhabit a blade. If suasa is preferred over gold as a material for dress purposes, my own feeling would be that those who say or indicate they prefer it are making a virtue of necessity. In the culture of Jawa , gold holds a place above all else as a material of honour. Historically rulers used to give gold in huge quantities to buy support. Within Javanese society gold has historically been used as the measure of all value:- a debt of currency will be expressed as a weight of gold, and you repay the gold weight extressed as currency when you repay the debt. This has been the case for a very long time. Gold is firmly fixed in the Javanese mind as the only thing of true worth --- even my own daughter-in-law will not wear any jewellery unless it is gold. I know people whom I consider to be relatively poor who will save every spare rupiah until they have sufficient to buy some gold, and along the way, they will refuse to wear costume jewellery, because if they can't wear gold, they will wear nothing. If Javanese royalty preferred suasa to gold, I feel that perhaps a few stories may have been invented to justify that preference.

12th February 2012, 07:32 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	ITS THE SAME IN MANY COUNTRYS PURE GOLD IS ALL THAT IS CONSIDERED ( GOLD) AND OFTEN MAKES UP A WOMANS DOWERY ALL IN THE FORM OF JEWELRY. AMERICA IS ONE OF THE FEW COUNTRYS WHERE 14 CARRAT OR 18 C. IS CONSIDERED GOLD. FOR TRUE VALUE "GOOD AS GOLD " SAYS IT ALL. SUASA IS MORE DURABLE THAN GOLD AND WOULD DEFORM AND WEAR LESS THAN PURE GOLD SO WOULD BE MUCH MORE PRACTICAL FOR USE ON WEAPONS OR ITEMS EXPOSED TO WEAR. NO DOUBT THE USE OF PURE GOLD ON WEAPONS IN SOME COUNTRIES MAY HAVE BEEN RESTRICTED TO THE ROYAL FAMILYS. IN SUCH CASES THE USE OF SUASA MAY HAVE BEEN PERMITTED TO SHOW WEALTH AND RANK AND TO LOOK GOOD. FOR THOSE WHO COULD AFFORD IT PURE GOLD HAS ALWAYS BEEN THE MOST DESIRABLE. PERHAPS SOMEONE LONG AGO WHO EITHER DID NOT HAVE THE STATUS OR WEALTH TO POSESS GOLD STARTED THE RUMOR THAT SUASA WAS BETTER BECAUSE THATS THE BEST HE COULD DO. I AM CURIOUS AS TO WHAT YOUR AVATAR IS LOEDJOE PERHAPS A POST ON IT WOULD BE OF INTREST TO OTHERS AS WELL AS MYSELF.

13th February 2012, 09:48 PM	#4
Loedjoe Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Oxford (UK) Posts: 96	Vandoo - I have posted a response to your query about the item shown in my Avatar, on the Ethnographic Weapons Forum, under 'parang betino'. Best wishes, Loedjoe

24th December 2015, 01:02 PM	#5
Maurice Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,453	just came up with this interesting suassa text. It is strange though that they describe it so extendedly with name of the Javanese emperor etc. It was a very early writing, so it might be true back than, and not written and made up by the writer just to put down some text. I could imagine there is some kind of truth in this, as there are not much Javanese weapons with suassa I know off. Maybe back than there was a period that suassa was in fashion more than gold in Java, and maybe also only to wear by a few noblemen, and not for the regular people..? This could explain why there is more gold find on Javanese weapons as suassa. Just a guess, Maurice

24th December 2015, 03:41 PM	#6
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	There's no text in your post to read Maurice.