SPANISH MIQUELET GUN NEED HELP

Cerjak · 26th January 2012, 09:52 AM

Fernando K

You are right it must be GUIASOLA who was working in EIBAR because the two guns was from the same family collection and the first one was from EIBAR , now We have the full identification!
I suppose that you know this site..
http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dew...d/miqulet.html
From this site :
"The miquelet lock shown at the left (figure1) was made by Guisasola, probably in Eibar, Spain, circa 1800. It is of the classic patilla style most often encountered in Spanish Colonial America. "
Thank you for your help and research.

Kind regards

Cerjak

Fernando K · 26th January 2012, 01:50 PM

Hi, Cerjak

Ramiro Larrañaga (opus citatus) Pag. 217/8

G U I S A S O L A:
Antonio de. Cajero. Eibar.1762
Antonio de. Escopetero. Eibar 1790/833. Padre de Pedro.
Felipe de. Vergara. En 1795 fué a Asturias
Félix de. Eibar. En 1794 fué a Asturias
José de. Eibar. 1794. Fué a Asturias
Juan Bautista de. 1795. Fué a Asturias
Martín de. 1795. Fué a Asturias.

Afectuosamente. Fernando K

cannonmn · 27th January 2012, 03:15 PM

I've studied Spanish artillery and am in fact the co-founder of the online group SARA (Spanish Artillery Research Associates which anyone is welcome to join) at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spanishartillery/

but I know very little about Spanish small arms. This piece looks like a very fine, high-grade sporting arm, given the extra embellishments, the once gold-filled touchmarks, etc.

Does anyone know if the maker(s) of this elaborate firearm also made plain muskets for the Spanish Army? Are there any contracts of record between the maker and the Spanish crown?

Fernando K · 28th January 2012, 02:29 PM

Los modelos reglamentarios o de ordenanza eran producidos por las fábricas, bajo el control estatal. Los ejemplares que se han subido al foro son producidos para el mercado civil. Las fábricas estatales estaban en Eibar, Placencia, Oviedo, etc. Había también fundiciones oficiales o estatales para la producción de cañones de bronce.

Afectuosamente. Fernando K

Hello, Cannonmn

The ordinance or regulatory models were produced by factories under state control. The specimens that have been uploaded to the forum are produced for the civilian market. The state-owned factories were in Eibar, Placencia, Oviedo, and so on. There were also official or state foundries for the production of bronze barrels.

Affectionately. Fernando K

cannonmn · 28th January 2012, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fernando K

Los modelos reglamentarios o de ordenanza eran producidos por las fábricas, bajo el control estatal. Los ejemplares que se han subido al foro son producidos para el mercado civil. Las fábricas estatales estaban en Eibar, Placencia, Oviedo, etc. Había también fundiciones oficiales o estatales para la producción de cañones de bronce.

Afectuosamente. Fernando K

Hello, Cannonmn

The ordinance or regulatory models were produced by factories under state control. The specimens that have been uploaded to the forum are produced for the civilian market. The state-owned factories were in Eibar, Placencia, Oviedo, and so on. There were also official or state foundries for the production of bronze barrels.

Affectionately. Fernando K

FK, thanks, I think you have answered my question but the way it is stated I am not 100% certain of the meaning. You are saying that Spanish Army weapons were made by factories controlled by the Crown (monarchy) under the king, which in the US we would call "arsenals."

Question 1: I think you are saying that the weapons posted, since they are NOT military, were NOT made by the military arsenals. Is that correct?

My confusion I think comes from the fact that in the US, quite often non-government, private or public companies or corporations were involved in manufacturing small arms for the US Army.

Question 2: Therefore I wondered if "private" companies in Spain also produced weapons for the Spanish Army. I think you are telling me that they did not, neither at the time the pictured pieces were made, nor later. Is that correct?

Fernando K · 30th January 2012, 01:15 PM

Hola, Cannonmn

Para instalar una analogía, es lo mismo que sucede con los armeros que producían el rifle Kentucky o de Pennsylvania, respecto que los modelos reglamentarios, por ejemplo, el modelo 1803 de rifle producido en Harper·s Ferry.

Ramiro Larrañaga, en su obra "Sintesis Histórica de la Armeria Vasca", se ha ocupado, en un trabajo improbo de todas las referencias que se encuentran en todos los archivos, museos, etc. de España, en todo lo que se refiera a los cotratos de la Corona con los armeros, desde 1400 en adelante.

Afectuosamente. Fernando K

Hello, Cannonmn

To establish an analogy, the same thing happens with dealers who produced the Kentucky or Pennsylvania rifle, concerning ordnance models, for example, the model 1803 rifle produced in Harper · s Ferry.

Ramiro Larrañaga, in his "History of the Armory Synthesis Vasca", has been busy doing a great job with all references found in all the archives, museums, etc. of Spain, in all that relates to the Crown contracts with the (private)gun dealers, from 1400 onwards.

Affectionately. Fernando K

cannonmn · 30th January 2012, 04:07 PM

FK, thanks, I will leave here believing that small arms for the Spanish Army were made only at Royal Army arsenals, and civilian makers did not make small arms for the Spanish Army. Appreciate the clarification.

26th January 2012, 09:52 AM	#1
Cerjak Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: FRANCE Posts: 1,065	thank you Fernado K Fernando K You are right it must be GUIASOLA who was working in EIBAR because the two guns was from the same family collection and the first one was from EIBAR , now We have the full identification! I suppose that you know this site.. http://www.tamu.edu/faculty/ccbn/dew...d/miqulet.html From this site : "The miquelet lock shown at the left (figure1) was made by Guisasola, probably in Eibar, Spain, circa 1800. It is of the classic patilla style most often encountered in Spanish Colonial America. " Thank you for your help and research. Kind regards Cerjak

28th January 2012, 02:29 PM	#4
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Los modelos reglamentarios o de ordenanza eran producidos por las fábricas, bajo el control estatal. Los ejemplares que se han subido al foro son producidos para el mercado civil. Las fábricas estatales estaban en Eibar, Placencia, Oviedo, etc. Había también fundiciones oficiales o estatales para la producción de cañones de bronce. Afectuosamente. Fernando K Hello, Cannonmn The ordinance or regulatory models were produced by factories under state control. The specimens that have been uploaded to the forum are produced for the civilian market. The state-owned factories were in Eibar, Placencia, Oviedo, and so on. There were also official or state foundries for the production of bronze barrels. Affectionately. Fernando K Last edited by fernando; 28th January 2012 at 03:24 PM.

30th January 2012, 01:15 PM	#6
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hola, Cannonmn Para instalar una analogía, es lo mismo que sucede con los armeros que producían el rifle Kentucky o de Pennsylvania, respecto que los modelos reglamentarios, por ejemplo, el modelo 1803 de rifle producido en Harper·s Ferry. Ramiro Larrañaga, en su obra "Sintesis Histórica de la Armeria Vasca", se ha ocupado, en un trabajo improbo de todas las referencias que se encuentran en todos los archivos, museos, etc. de España, en todo lo que se refiera a los cotratos de la Corona con los armeros, desde 1400 en adelante. Afectuosamente. Fernando K Hello, Cannonmn To establish an analogy, the same thing happens with dealers who produced the Kentucky or Pennsylvania rifle, concerning ordnance models, for example, the model 1803 rifle produced in Harper · s Ferry. Ramiro Larrañaga, in his "History of the Armory Synthesis Vasca", has been busy doing a great job with all references found in all the archives, museums, etc. of Spain, in all that relates to the Crown contracts with the (private)gun dealers, from 1400 onwards. Affectionately. Fernando K Last edited by fernando; 30th January 2012 at 05:39 PM.

26th January 2012, 01:50 PM	#2
Fernando K Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Posts: 671	Hi, Cerjak Ramiro Larrañaga (opus citatus) Pag. 217/8 G U I S A S O L A: Antonio de. Cajero. Eibar.1762 Antonio de. Escopetero. Eibar 1790/833. Padre de Pedro. Felipe de. Vergara. En 1795 fué a Asturias Félix de. Eibar. En 1794 fué a Asturias José de. Eibar. 1794. Fué a Asturias Juan Bautista de. 1795. Fué a Asturias Martín de. 1795. Fué a Asturias. Afectuosamente. Fernando K

27th January 2012, 03:15 PM	#3
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	I've studied Spanish artillery and am in fact the co-founder of the online group SARA (Spanish Artillery Research Associates which anyone is welcome to join) at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/spanishartillery/ but I know very little about Spanish small arms. This piece looks like a very fine, high-grade sporting arm, given the extra embellishments, the once gold-filled touchmarks, etc. Does anyone know if the maker(s) of this elaborate firearm also made plain muskets for the Spanish Army? Are there any contracts of record between the maker and the Spanish crown?

30th January 2012, 04:07 PM	#7
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	FK, thanks, I will leave here believing that small arms for the Spanish Army were made only at Royal Army arsenals, and civilian makers did not make small arms for the Spanish Army. Appreciate the clarification.