Very unusual SPEAR / LANCE

CharlesS · 19th January 2012, 06:41 PM

My guess is Zanzibar or Madagascar.

thinreadline · 19th January 2012, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

My guess is Zanzibar or Madagascar.

Thats a pretty interesting suggestion .. do you have refs or pics that point you in that direction ?
Richmond

Lew · 19th January 2012, 07:42 PM

Well Gav's spear looks Dan to me?

Jim McDougall · 20th January 2012, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

My guess is Zanzibar or Madagascar.

Im curious too Charles. I dont know much on Madagascar, but Zanzibar seems remarkably 'reflective' as far as weapon and material culture styles with its place as a key trade entrepot between Arab trade, Red Sea trade and the caravans from inland.

Gavin Nugent · 20th January 2012, 12:57 AM

Charles, Jim, very interesting thoughts. Keeping the regional aspects in mind and the strong influences within the island and trade, Rich's spear head does to some degree remind me of an "Alam". Although not as decorative and piecred as most are, the 4 dot inlay does account for some thing special.

Martin Lubojacky · 20th January 2012, 09:34 AM

I think this spear is comming from Sahara. Old Tuareg spear ("lower casts" - e.g. like Imrhads - were forbidden to have all-iron allarhs). There is some descripiton I think in the book "Targi" by Vavra (unfortunately only in the Czech language and no pictures) from thirties. But this spear is older, I guess 19th century.

This shape of the spearhead evokes some simmilar shapes from what is curently Sudan, from Congo and even a little from Madagascar. Nevertheless I am nearly convinced this one is some Tuareg cast (I do not mean horizontal division to confederations, but let us say vertical to supperior and subaltern tribes...).

(As far as Zanzibar suggestion: Except of what introduced Omani Arabs there, like various types of "zanzibar handeled" sabres and swords and kataras and other arabic weapons, there is a very small collection of the weapons in the museum in Stone-town, especially I would say comming from eastern Congo, which, very probably vere brought to Zanzibar during Tippu Tipp´s slaver´s raids.)

Regards
Martin

thinreadline · 20th January 2012, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Lubojacky

I think this spear is comming from Sahara. Old Tuareg spear ("lower casts" - e.g. like Imrhads - were forbidden to have all-iron allarhs). There is some descripiton I think in the book "Targi" by Vavra (unfortunately only in the Czech language and no pictures) from thirties. But this spear is older, I guess 19th century.

This shape of the spearhead evokes some simmilar shapes from what is curently Sudan, from Congo and even a little from Madagascar. Nevertheless I am nearly convinced this one is some Tuareg cast (I do not mean horizontal division to confederations, but let us say vertical to supperior and subaltern tribes...).

(As far as Zanzibar suggestion: Except of what introduced Omani Arabs there, like various types of "zanzibar handeled" sabres and swords and kataras and other arabic weapons, there is a very small collection of the weapons in the museum in Stone-town, especially I would say comming from eastern Congo, which, very probably vere brought to Zanzibar during Tippu Tipp´s slaver´s raids.)

Regards
Martin

Well thank you Martin, this one is proving to be quite interesting ...
Richmond

CharlesS · 21st January 2012, 01:31 PM

I am trying to post a pic of a spear I have been told was from Zanzibar, and somewhere here in my mass of books and articles I have some confirmation, but can' find it....naturally it will pop up a year form now when this thread is long forgotten

.

We are having storms and I can't get decent lighting for the spear, so will try again later today.

19th January 2012, 07:42 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Well Gav's spear looks Dan to me? Attached Images Last edited by Lew; 19th January 2012 at 07:53 PM.

19th January 2012, 06:41 PM	#1
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	My guess is Zanzibar or Madagascar.

20th January 2012, 12:57 AM	#5
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Charles, Jim, very interesting thoughts. Keeping the regional aspects in mind and the strong influences within the island and trade, Rich's spear head does to some degree remind me of an "Alam". Although not as decorative and piecred as most are, the 4 dot inlay does account for some thing special.

20th January 2012, 09:34 AM	#6
Martin Lubojacky Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Czech Republic Posts: 843	I think this spear is comming from Sahara. Old Tuareg spear ("lower casts" - e.g. like Imrhads - were forbidden to have all-iron allarhs). There is some descripiton I think in the book "Targi" by Vavra (unfortunately only in the Czech language and no pictures) from thirties. But this spear is older, I guess 19th century. This shape of the spearhead evokes some simmilar shapes from what is curently Sudan, from Congo and even a little from Madagascar. Nevertheless I am nearly convinced this one is some Tuareg cast (I do not mean horizontal division to confederations, but let us say vertical to supperior and subaltern tribes...). (As far as Zanzibar suggestion: Except of what introduced Omani Arabs there, like various types of "zanzibar handeled" sabres and swords and kataras and other arabic weapons, there is a very small collection of the weapons in the museum in Stone-town, especially I would say comming from eastern Congo, which, very probably vere brought to Zanzibar during Tippu Tipp´s slaver´s raids.) Regards Martin

21st January 2012, 01:31 PM	#8
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	I am trying to post a pic of a spear I have been told was from Zanzibar, and somewhere here in my mass of books and articles I have some confirmation, but can' find it....naturally it will pop up a year form now when this thread is long forgotten . We are having storms and I can't get decent lighting for the spear, so will try again later today.