Nice Kaskara on eBay

Rick · 12th January 2012, 04:34 AM

I will be interested to see if the blade bears this mark, Lew .

Leather Therapy for the scabbard ...

Mefidk · 12th January 2012, 05:16 AM

Rick, the guy had four for sale, one of which looked to have a mark similar to the one you are interested in.

Like Iain I would have loved to pick up some of these, but Danish customs are really no fun, so my route to Europe would be even more circuitous than Iain's

So less competition for you stateside folks

Lew · 12th January 2012, 03:20 PM

Here are some pics of the one I won. Below that is the other kaskara with similar markings to Ricks piece.

Rick · 12th January 2012, 03:54 PM

I'm really starting to think that this is a native mark .

Iain · 12th January 2012, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm really starting to think that this is a native mark .

I've never heard of it turning up in one of the mark compendiums from Germany which I think are pretty comprehensive for the 19th century. So I'd say probably native. However doesn't necessarily mean the blades that it's found on aren't trade blades.

CharlesS · 12th January 2012, 09:02 PM

Nice piece, Lew...and quite a bargain.

Lew · 12th January 2012, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Nice piece, Lew...and quite a bargain.

Thanks Charles. I was surprised that no one else bid on it.

Will need to clean off the surface rust when it arrives. The blade does have a nice look to it though.

Jim McDougall · 13th January 2012, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

I'm really starting to think that this is a native mark .

Indeed it is Rick, and you and I have been kicking this one around quite a few years!

It seems that in more recent research and finally in discussions with Ed Hunley, who noted seeing these kinds of markings in the Suq al Haddad in Kassala in 1984, it is my opinion these are stylized interpretations of the old Samuel Kull mark. This was an ideograph of a fly which was apparantly recorded for this member of the Kull family blade retailers in Solingen from around 1847 until about 1860.

Much like many of the European markings which had circulated through the trade networks and native armourers centers through the 19th century and before, these markings were interpreted in use by these artisans. While the European purpose was of course mostly guild accordance and ostensibly quality assurance, the natives perceived these marks quite differently and applied them in terms of thier own meanings.

In this case, the marking had been loosely stylized from the original which had appeared more faithfully in takoubas earlier (see Raidera sword, Briggs, 1965, plate XX) and as the fly (termed duran in local dialect, Sudan). In native perception this was, as with many of these marks, magic, in this case to empower the warrior to 'jump as the fly' in combat.

It would seem that by the time of the Hadendoa swordmaking industry in Kassala, this stylized form, along with numbers of others, the crecent moons etc. had become quite stylized, though I believe in this form it was probably used for generations. These blades seen here with Lews and the one with the 'duran' probably had been around quite a few years, though of course they are refurbished with new mounts virtually with each change of hands in many cases.

All the best,
Jim

Rick · 13th January 2012, 05:34 AM

I think what I've got here is a native blade, Jim; a very nice native blade; irregularities in the forging are apparent, no forte to the blade .

Very lively steel.
I expect Lew's sword will share the same characteristics .

Jim McDougall · 13th January 2012, 08:13 PM

Good call Rick, and Im inclined to agree. It is interesting though, in recent discussions it seems there is some suggestion that the absence of forte does not necessarily eliminate European production. It seems there are examples of swords from some producers without the usual forte block, though no examples spring immediately to mind. Beyond that, there seems to be also the possibility that some blades made in Solingen for export were made specifically for these North African markets and some of them were indeed without the forte.

The Solingen blade producing machine seems to have few bounds in the range of production styles tailored to certain clientele, as has been seen in the rapier blades produced far into the 18th century for the anachronistically favored cuphilts for Spain, long after the advent of the smallsword.

12th January 2012, 04:34 AM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I will be interested to see if the blade bears this mark, Lew . Leather Therapy for the scabbard ... Attached Images

12th January 2012, 05:16 AM	#2
Mefidk Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Denmark Posts: 157	Rick, the guy had four for sale, one of which looked to have a mark similar to the one you are interested in. Like Iain I would have loved to pick up some of these, but Danish customs are really no fun, so my route to Europe would be even more circuitous than Iain's So less competition for you stateside folks Attached Images

12th January 2012, 03:20 PM	#3
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here are some pics of the one I won. Below that is the other kaskara with similar markings to Ricks piece. Attached Images

12th January 2012, 03:54 PM	#4
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I'm really starting to think that this is a native mark .

12th January 2012, 09:02 PM	#6
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Nice piece, Lew...and quite a bargain.

13th January 2012, 05:34 AM	#9
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,339	I think what I've got here is a native blade, Jim; a very nice native blade; irregularities in the forging are apparent, no forte to the blade . Very lively steel. I expect Lew's sword will share the same characteristics .

13th January 2012, 08:13 PM	#10
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Good call Rick, and Im inclined to agree. It is interesting though, in recent discussions it seems there is some suggestion that the absence of forte does not necessarily eliminate European production. It seems there are examples of swords from some producers without the usual forte block, though no examples spring immediately to mind. Beyond that, there seems to be also the possibility that some blades made in Solingen for export were made specifically for these North African markets and some of them were indeed without the forte. The Solingen blade producing machine seems to have few bounds in the range of production styles tailored to certain clientele, as has been seen in the rapier blades produced far into the 18th century for the anachronistically favored cuphilts for Spain, long after the advent of the smallsword.