Manuscript obout 15 century firearms

Spiridonov · 3rd January 2012, 08:45 PM

The most interesting images:
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/21v/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/35v/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/87r/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/89r/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...b/113v/x-large
Look at the last picture. There are something look like drill. Can somebody translate this? I would be great to translate all this titles

Matchlock · 3rd January 2012, 09:15 PM

Hi Alexander,

On the quick I cannot decipher everything but I hope Swordfish can help a lot!

1. Der kunst macht wol gewissen, ... läuft man (?) gefahr verdorben pulver mag schiessen.
Although you may be sure of your command of the art, the danger remains to fire foul powder.

2. Wie man blos machen soll, macht den dreier nicht wol?!

3. Die puchsen stain sint gut, der fy ...?
The stone balls are of good quality, ...?

4. Der p? ist nicht verloren, wo du vil ? sollst machen?

5. Die gesellen mit der puchsen pehent schiessen wellen.
The guys intend firing their guns properly.

Swordfish, are you there?

Best,
Michael

cannonmn · 3rd January 2012, 09:15 PM

First one: "Hans, haven't I told you a hundred times not to prime the hot cannon with a full flask of gunpowder!" (aber meine Deutsch is sehr schlecht)

cannonmn · 3rd January 2012, 09:36 PM

This one was translated by my Swiss e-penpal "Fidbald" who can actually read many of them:

"If you want to walk on water you have to wear shoes."

http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...33b/68v/medium

For quicker access to these, go to dropdown menu on top entitled "view" and select thumbnail or another of your choice, In the line of black rectangles, selecting smallest will cause much faster downloading.

Matchlock · 3rd January 2012, 09:48 PM

[QUOTE=cannonmn]This one was translated by my Swiss e-penpal "Fidbald" who can actually read many of them:

"If you want to walk on water you have to wear shoes."

That's right, John,

The Medieval German text reads 'Wilst über wasser gan, leg dy (dir) schurh an'.

Matchlock · 3rd January 2012, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cannonmn

First one: "Hans, haven't I told you a hundred times not to prime the hot cannon with a full flask of gunpowder!" (aber meine Deutsch is sehr schlecht)

Sorry John,

I clearly beg to differ. It cleary reads kunst and verdobn pulver!

m

Matchlock · 3rd January 2012, 09:58 PM

[QUOTE=Spiridonov]The most interesting images:
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/21v/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/35v/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/87r/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/89r/x-large
http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...b/113v/x-large

Here are the images.
m

Matchlock · 3rd January 2012, 10:05 PM

Alexander,

As you asked: this seems to be water-driven drill although the text does not actually seem to refer to it.

m

Matchlock · 3rd January 2012, 10:27 PM

For the tiller arquebus in the last ms illustration, please see the following Vienna illustrations of 1410 and 1411 respectively, and the original arquebus of ca. 1400 preserved in my collection, the mechanism and hook added ca. 1430-1440 (attachments). This is the oldest known completely preserved handgun, even retaining its original tiller stock.

Please note that guns of the early 1400's did not yet have hooks, they did not seem to appear before the 1430's.

m

Swordfish · 4th January 2012, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matchlock

Alexander,

As you asked: this seems to be water-driven drill although the text does not actually seem to refer to it.

m

I can read the text,but the meaning is indistinct.

Der püx (die Büchse)ist nicht verloren/ wo du vil Düchel(alemannisch für hölzerne Wasserleitung) solt parzn(südtirolerisch für aufstämmen)

Matchlock · 4th January 2012, 06:15 PM

Briilliant, Swordfish,

I have some difficulties with Alammisch and Swiss dialects.

I canot give a meaningful translation of what you deciphered either.

Best,
Michael

cannonmn · 5th January 2012, 01:07 AM

I would be happy to put captions on any that have no captions shown. Or any that do, for that matter, but it will be an interpretive caption and not a translation.

I couldn't seem to find it again but one of the drawings showed two people and a fortification. Both people (perhaps women?) had what appeared to be flaming fingers on one hand, held so fingers were pointed up. What's the story behind that one?

Matchlock · 5th January 2012, 01:16 AM

John,

May I ask you to identify the exact link to that illustration?

I will be happy then to you give you my interpretation.

m

Spiridonov · 9th January 2012, 03:15 PM

It looks like tool for extracting bullet and wad... I don't think that it is a drill. Somebody can translate the title?

Matchlock · 9th January 2012, 05:20 PM

Hi Alexander.

The title, as I said before, reads

Die Gesellen mit den Puchsen behent schießen wellen, meaning The guys wish to quickly fire their guns.

Thus it gives no clue to the various illustrated actions in the picture but you are doubtlessly correct: this guy is shown extracting a wad or a bullet with some kind of a threaded extractor.

You noticed a few 16th/17th extractors for using in the treaded iron finial of the ramrod im my collection when you were here!

See attatched image, on the right hand side.

Best,
Michael

3rd January 2012, 09:58 PM	#7
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	[QUOTE=Spiridonov]The most interesting images: http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/21v/x-large http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/35v/x-large http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/87r/x-large http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/89r/x-large http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...b/113v/x-large Here are the images. m Attached Images

3rd January 2012, 10:05 PM	#8
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Alexander, As you asked: this seems to be water-driven drill although the text does not actually seem to refer to it. m Attached Images

3rd January 2012, 10:27 PM	#9
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	For the tiller arquebus in the last ms illustration, please see the following Vienna illustrations of 1410 and 1411 respectively, and the original arquebus of ca. 1400 preserved in my collection, the mechanism and hook added ca. 1430-1440 (attachments). This is the oldest known completely preserved handgun, even retaining its original tiller stock. Please note that guns of the early 1400's did not yet have hooks, they did not seem to appear before the 1430's. m Attached Images Last edited by Matchlock; 3rd January 2012 at 11:08 PM.

4th January 2012, 06:15 PM	#11
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Briilliant, Swordfish, I have some difficulties with Alammisch and Swiss dialects. I canot give a meaningful translation of what you deciphered either. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 4th January 2012 at 06:46 PM.

9th January 2012, 05:20 PM	#15
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Alexander. The title, as I said before, reads Die Gesellen mit den Puchsen behent schießen wellen, meaning The guys wish to quickly fire their guns. Thus it gives no clue to the various illustrated actions in the picture but you are doubtlessly correct: this guy is shown extracting a wad or a bullet with some kind of a threaded extractor. You noticed a few 16th/17th extractors for using in the treaded iron finial of the ramrod im my collection when you were here! See attatched image, on the right hand side. Best, Michael Attached Images

3rd January 2012, 08:45 PM	#1
Spiridonov Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Russia, Leningrad Posts: 355	The most interesting images: http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/21v/x-large http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/35v/x-large http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/87r/x-large http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...3b/89r/x-large http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...b/113v/x-large Look at the last picture. There are something look like drill. Can somebody translate this? I would be great to translate all this titles

3rd January 2012, 09:15 PM	#2
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Alexander, On the quick I cannot decipher everything but I hope Swordfish can help a lot! 1. Der kunst macht wol gewissen, ... läuft man (?) gefahr verdorben pulver mag schiessen. Although you may be sure of your command of the art, the danger remains to fire foul powder. 2. Wie man blos machen soll, macht den dreier nicht wol?! 3. Die puchsen stain sint gut, der fy ...? The stone balls are of good quality, ...? 4. Der p? ist nicht verloren, wo du vil ? sollst machen? 5. Die gesellen mit der puchsen pehent schiessen wellen. The guys intend firing their guns properly. Swordfish, are you there? Best, Michael

3rd January 2012, 09:15 PM	#3
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	First one: "Hans, haven't I told you a hundred times not to prime the hot cannon with a full flask of gunpowder!" (aber meine Deutsch is sehr schlecht)

3rd January 2012, 09:36 PM	#4
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	This one was translated by my Swiss e-penpal "Fidbald" who can actually read many of them: "If you want to walk on water you have to wear shoes." http://www.e-codices.unifr.ch/en/zbz...33b/68v/medium For quicker access to these, go to dropdown menu on top entitled "view" and select thumbnail or another of your choice, In the line of black rectangles, selecting smallest will cause much faster downloading.

3rd January 2012, 09:48 PM	#5
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	[QUOTE=cannonmn]This one was translated by my Swiss e-penpal "Fidbald" who can actually read many of them: "If you want to walk on water you have to wear shoes." That's right, John, The Medieval German text reads 'Wilst über wasser gan, leg dy (dir) schurh an'.

5th January 2012, 01:07 AM	#12
cannonmn Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 161	I would be happy to put captions on any that have no captions shown. Or any that do, for that matter, but it will be an interpretive caption and not a translation. I couldn't seem to find it again but one of the drawings showed two people and a fortification. Both people (perhaps women?) had what appeared to be flaming fingers on one hand, held so fingers were pointed up. What's the story behind that one?

5th January 2012, 01:16 AM	#13
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	John, May I ask you to identify the exact link to that illustration? I will be happy then to you give you my interpretation. m

9th January 2012, 03:15 PM	#14
Spiridonov Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Russia, Leningrad Posts: 355	It looks like tool for extracting bullet and wad... I don't think that it is a drill. Somebody can translate the title?