Sirau and their use

David · 28th December 2011, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sajen

Agree with you that this are mainly utility knifes and when used in combat the only way which make sense is the one Lew described.
I have had the same thoughts in this thread, post #8: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...ghlight=siraui

Can anyone show any references, either written or photographic that these knives have ever been used as a combat blade?

Rick · 28th December 2011, 03:36 AM

This weapon form 'Siraui' is found nowhere in my copy of Draeger's 'Fighting Arts' FWIW .

VVV · 28th December 2011, 10:05 AM

I don't have any of the two variations of Siraui around so I can't try out the grip again. For fighting however, especially adapted for Sumatran conditions with light clothing, you don't need to have a five or four finger grip. That's the reason you can use several different grips for cutting and thrusting if you do it with a Silat flavor. For FMA however the gripping is more like the western way (except maybe when you are guiding after contact with your index finger and thumb when doing simultaneously sword and knife?).

In Fischer 1918 I didn't find the term siraui. For the variation I (attached) there was no name. For the variation II it was described as a "pisaw" (= knife in general). Fischer doesn't say anything about it's main use.

I also suspect that both mine, and the two pictured in Fischer (see below), are larger (handle + blade) than the ones Lew originally showed (22 - 27 cm or 8 1/2 - 10 1/2" )?
What is the size of yours, Lew?

Michael

David · 28th December 2011, 03:43 PM

I have noticed that when we talk about Siraui we seem to be talking about what appear to me to be two completely different forms of knife. The first one you show here, Michael, is similar to Lew's examples and to my eyes looks more like a utility knife than a fighter. The second blade you show with the fuller has a different blade form and sheath form and does have the look of a fighting knife. This is the same blade that Zonneveld identifies as a Siraui. Unless the word Siraui can also be translated as "knife" like pisaw it seems to me that someone has gotten something wrong somewhere.

VVV · 28th December 2011, 04:07 PM

David that's an interesting observation. The curved form of variation II is found on several agricultural knives too from this region.
Could you please enclose a snapshot of the text and pictures from van Z so all the source material is in this thread? I thought both versions were described in his book but I don't have it around?

Michael

Sajen · 28th December 2011, 04:25 PM

Not the best quality photo but all is to seen what we need.

Sajen · 28th December 2011, 04:29 PM

And here the two examples Charles showed us in a other thread.

28th December 2011, 10:05 AM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	I don't have any of the two variations of Siraui around so I can't try out the grip again. For fighting however, especially adapted for Sumatran conditions with light clothing, you don't need to have a five or four finger grip. That's the reason you can use several different grips for cutting and thrusting if you do it with a Silat flavor. For FMA however the gripping is more like the western way (except maybe when you are guiding after contact with your index finger and thumb when doing simultaneously sword and knife?). In Fischer 1918 I didn't find the term siraui. For the variation I (attached) there was no name. For the variation II it was described as a "pisaw" (= knife in general). Fischer doesn't say anything about it's main use. I also suspect that both mine, and the two pictured in Fischer (see below), are larger (handle + blade) than the ones Lew originally showed (22 - 27 cm or 8 1/2 - 10 1/2" )? What is the size of yours, Lew? Michael Attached Images

28th December 2011, 04:25 PM	#6
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,409	Not the best quality photo but all is to seen what we need. Attached Images

28th December 2011, 04:29 PM	#7
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,409	And here the two examples Charles showed us in a other thread. Attached Images

28th December 2011, 03:36 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,376	This weapon form 'Siraui' is found nowhere in my copy of Draeger's 'Fighting Arts' FWIW .

28th December 2011, 03:43 PM	#4
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,250	I have noticed that when we talk about Siraui we seem to be talking about what appear to me to be two completely different forms of knife. The first one you show here, Michael, is similar to Lew's examples and to my eyes looks more like a utility knife than a fighter. The second blade you show with the fuller has a different blade form and sheath form and does have the look of a fighting knife. This is the same blade that Zonneveld identifies as a Siraui. Unless the word Siraui can also be translated as "knife" like pisaw it seems to me that someone has gotten something wrong somewhere.

28th December 2011, 04:07 PM	#5
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	David that's an interesting observation. The curved form of variation II is found on several agricultural knives too from this region. Could you please enclose a snapshot of the text and pictures from van Z so all the source material is in this thread? I thought both versions were described in his book but I don't have it around? Michael