Help Identify this Sword - (Talwar, Shamshir ?)

Atlantia · 1st December 2011, 03:43 PM

Hi GST,

Thanks for taking the time to reply to everyone, it's appreciated.
Can you show some more pictures of the blade, some daylight shots of clean areas of the steel in close-up if possible?

It's an interesting thing, how does it feel?

Best
Gene

P.S. Welcome to the forums.

Jim McDougall · 3rd December 2011, 07:29 AM

GST, welcome to our forum, and thank you very much for responding to each of us personally and with such attentive detail, very much appreciated.

I'm very curious about the 'sukhela steel'. The term sukhela with reference in
Indian swords typically refers to the straight blade type tulwar hilted forms (Rawson, p.42-44) . It is noted that many of these type swords as well as khandas are mounted with European blades imported from the ports of west India, and that the iron and steel work in Deccan regions was unsatisfactory.
The only references to sukhela steel I have found are from the collections in South Kensington Museum (catalog 1874, p.316) and Burton (1884, p.110) in which several types of steel from Spain and Portugal are listed as Ispat, Tolad and Sukhela. Suggestions are of course of high quality steel and that the term was used for a sword (of this steel presumably) in Hindu parlance.

The curved blade on this sword does not correspond to the suggestions of the 'sukhela' swords with straight blades, but perhaps of course could still be of this kind of steel?
With the notariety of Indian steel used in so many cultures for so long, I wonder why they were using Spanish and Portuguese steel? Would that have been because of the moratorium by the British on steel production in the 1860s?

These questions of course go to the blade. The grips are fascinating, especially in this material, and remind me very much in profile of Khyber knives. Sabres made for Sillidar cavalry regiments in India typically had blades with these kinds of shallow curve and though often produced by British makers for India Stores, there were armourers of course in India as well.
Blades for these regiments ranged typically from 30" to 33". These ersatz armourers in frontier regions also refurbished weapons during the many years of volatility through so many of these regions well through the 20th century, so unusual hybrids are actually much to be expected I would think.

1st December 2011, 03:43 PM	#1
Atlantia Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: The Sharp end Posts: 2,928	Hi GST, Thanks for taking the time to reply to everyone, it's appreciated. Can you show some more pictures of the blade, some daylight shots of clean areas of the steel in close-up if possible? It's an interesting thing, how does it feel? Best Gene P.S. Welcome to the forums.

3rd December 2011, 07:29 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	GST, welcome to our forum, and thank you very much for responding to each of us personally and with such attentive detail, very much appreciated. I'm very curious about the 'sukhela steel'. The term sukhela with reference in Indian swords typically refers to the straight blade type tulwar hilted forms (Rawson, p.42-44) . It is noted that many of these type swords as well as khandas are mounted with European blades imported from the ports of west India, and that the iron and steel work in Deccan regions was unsatisfactory. The only references to sukhela steel I have found are from the collections in South Kensington Museum (catalog 1874, p.316) and Burton (1884, p.110) in which several types of steel from Spain and Portugal are listed as Ispat, Tolad and Sukhela. Suggestions are of course of high quality steel and that the term was used for a sword (of this steel presumably) in Hindu parlance. The curved blade on this sword does not correspond to the suggestions of the 'sukhela' swords with straight blades, but perhaps of course could still be of this kind of steel? With the notariety of Indian steel used in so many cultures for so long, I wonder why they were using Spanish and Portuguese steel? Would that have been because of the moratorium by the British on steel production in the 1860s? These questions of course go to the blade. The grips are fascinating, especially in this material, and remind me very much in profile of Khyber knives. Sabres made for Sillidar cavalry regiments in India typically had blades with these kinds of shallow curve and though often produced by British makers for India Stores, there were armourers of course in India as well. Blades for these regiments ranged typically from 30" to 33". These ersatz armourers in frontier regions also refurbished weapons during the many years of volatility through so many of these regions well through the 20th century, so unusual hybrids are actually much to be expected I would think.