Sheffield-made Kaskara

[Jim McDougall]

Ibrahiim thank you so much for this very observant response, and especially for the added detail of the Sword of Stalingrad. I was completely unaware of that piece and it is most interesting that the steel was produced by Sanderson& Newbold. In material on the sword it is noted that the 'steel' was produced by this firm and the sword was forged by Wilkinson.
The firm was a steel producing company in Sheffield as noted from about c.1901 and before.
In wartime, any manufacturing firm can and usually will be 'retooled' for the war effort. In this case, a textile firm 'Platt Bros.' was indeed recruited to provide munitions as well as some machinery. Just how much textile production remained I am uncertain, but was certainly a good degree.
In WWII, bombers were built by many factories which had nothing to do with aviation....some appliance factories built them, car manufacturers etc. the lists are amazing.
During 1969 I worked for an electronics firm who produced warheads for 105 mm howitzers bound for Vietnam. The contracts were independant of the main production lines but produced by the same company heading.

The blades for many kaskaras are noted to have been produced during and after the Mahdiyya from lorry springs, and certainly other tool steel might have been used as well. In locally produced blades of such materials, the markings were not carefully guarded nor placed, as evidenced by other sheet steel blades with off center or partial remainders of original stock marks.
It is not unusual in many ethnographic weapons to discover these kinds of anomalies..I recall a Burmese 'silver' mounted dha from years ago where I found a discreetly placed stamp from Everready, the battery firm in the mounts.

The use of tools, especially files, is well known in weapons, and the first Bowie knife is actually believed fashioned from a file. This is especially common in SE Asia weapons as I understand.

All the best,
Jim

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Ibrahiim thank you so much for this very observant response, and especially for the added detail of the Sword of Stalingrad. I was completely unaware of that piece and it is most interesting that the steel was produced by Sanderson& Newbold. In material on the sword it is noted that the 'steel' was produced by this firm and the sword was forged by Wilkinson.
The firm was a steel producing company in Sheffield as noted from about c.1901 and before.
In wartime, any manufacturing firm can and usually will be 'retooled' for the war effort. In this case, a textile firm 'Platt Bros.' was indeed recruited to provide munitions as well as some machinery. Just how much textile production remained I am uncertain, but was certainly a good degree.
In WWII, bombers were built by many factories which had nothing to do with aviation....some appliance factories built them, car manufacturers etc. the lists are amazing.
During 1969 I worked for an electronics firm who produced warheads for 105 mm howitzers bound for Vietnam. The contracts were independant of the main production lines but produced by the same company heading.

The blades for many kaskaras are noted to have been produced during and after the Mahdiyya from lorry springs, and certainly other tool steel might have been used as well. In locally produced blades of such materials, the markings were not carefully guarded nor placed, as evidenced by other sheet steel blades with off center or partial remainders of original stock marks.
It is not unusual in many ethnographic weapons to discover these kinds of anomalies..I recall a Burmese 'silver' mounted dha from years ago where I found a discreetly placed stamp from Everready, the battery firm in the mounts.

The use of tools, especially files, is well known in weapons, and the first Bowie knife is actually believed fashioned from a file. This is especially common in SE Asia weapons as I understand.

All the best,
Jim

Salaams Jim, Thanks for that detail... The Stengun (Stirling Turpin Enfield) story also has an interesting tale in that no factories were able to make the curved magazine however a miniature railways company filled the gap as they had the machinery to make curved miniature railtrack and with some modifications were turning out magazines for the Sten in no time at all... Interestingly the war office turned to sewing machine factories for machine gun technology in WW2 especially for precision machine guns on fighter aircraft as apparently the mechanisms are similar to sewing machines..!!

Often remodelled bedford truck springs are used on Omani work knives or taken straight from the Victorian Sheffield, or Solingen butter knives of the 19th C. In this case it is intriguing that apparently a machine part probably off a weaving machine has been made into an African sword.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Jim McDougall]

Excellent Ibrahiim, this gives us some great perspective!
So Stephen.......any thoughts ?

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Jim, Thanks for that detail... The Stengun (Stirling Turpin Enfield) story also has an interesting tale in that no factories were able to make the curved magazine however a miniature railways company filled the gap as they had the machinery to make curved miniature railtrack and with some modifications were turning out magazines for the Sten in no time at all...
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

mmm Can you substantiate any of that story Ibrahim?

After all Sten guns from mk.1 to mk.5 all had straight magazines, so your story seems rather fanciful?

spiral

[Norman McCormick]

Hi,
The Sterling had curved magazines but I can't remember any problems with said magazine production.
Regards,
Norman.

[Edster]

Stephen & Sander. Great rare blades that have both the steel supplier and machinery mfg. stamped on the blades.

As Stephen notes, Platt Bros. were the world's largest producer cotton processing machinery. Sudan exported to England much/most of the cotton produced on the Gezira Scheme south of Khartoum. Pratt likely exported machinery to the cotton industry in Sudan. My guess is that each blade was originally a blade of a cotton bale cutter or similar device. Stephen's likely had the traditional three fullers added locally. Sander's has no fullers and was apparently repurposed into a kaskara with little more than producing a second edge. Both swords have the chisel style cross-guards fashionable in Sennar. Sennar dam was built in 1926 to provide irrigation water to the Gerzira Scheme. This could date the swords to circa 1930.

Best regards,
Ed

[Edster]

Opps, double post. Sorry.

Stephen & Sander. Great rare blades that have both the steel supplier and machinery mfg. stamped on the blades.

As Stephen notes, Platt Bros. were the world's largest producer cotton processing machinery. Sudan exported much/most of the cotton produced on the Gezira Scheme south of Khartoum. Pratt likely exported machinery to the cotton industry in Sudan. My guess is that each blade was originally a blade of a cotton bale cutter or similar device. Stephen's had the traditional three fullers added locally. Sander's has no fullers and was apparently repurposed into a kaskara with little more than producing a second edge. Both swords have the chisel style cross-guards fashionable in Sennar. Sennar dam was built in 1926 to provide irrigation water to the Gerzira Scheme. This could date the swords to circa 1930.

Best regards,
Ed

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by Edster

Opps, double post. Sorry.

Stephen & Sander. Great rare blades that have both the steel supplier and machinery mfg. stamped on the blades.

As Stephen notes, Platt Bros. were the world's largest producer cotton processing machinery. Sudan exported much/most of the cotton produced on the Gezira Scheme south of Khartoum. Pratt likely exported machinery to the cotton industry in Sudan. My guess is that each blade was originally a blade of a cotton bale cutter or similar device. Stephen's had the traditional three fullers added locally. Sander's has no fullers and was apparently repurposed into a kaskara with little more than producing a second edge. Both swords have the chisel style cross-guards fashionable in Sennar. Sennar dam was built in 1926 to provide irrigation water to the Gerzira Scheme. This could date the swords to circa 1930.

Best regards,
Ed

Salaams Ed, Thoroughly good research Sir...I enjoyed that...
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by spiral

mmm Can you substantiate any of that story Ibrahim?

After all Sten guns from mk.1 to mk.5 all had straight magazines, so your story seems rather fanciful?

spiral

Salaams spiral, I think you may be right and I cannot substantiate that part of the story except...as it transpires there was a company in Scotland that was making weapons for the Germans...I cant remember the Mark..but they were a Sewing Machine Company called ...Singer Sewing Machines.


SALAAMS SANDER, I HOPE THAT SLIGHT DERAILMENT DOESN'T SPOIL THE THREAD WHICH IS VERY INTERESTING AND ESPECIALLY AS ANOTHER SWORD HAS SURFACED WITH YOU ...AND WELCOME TO THE FORUM ...


Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams spiral, I think you may be right and I cannot substantiate that part of the story except...as it transpires there was a company in Scotland that was making weapons for the Germans...I cant remember the Mark..but they were a Sewing Machine Company called ...Singer Sewing Machines.
.

Bonjour! Ibrahim!

I am.

I have a list of many hundreds of engineering firms who made parts for machine guns, rifles, grenades or also like Singer sewing machines bayonets in ww1 or ww2.

Mechanical engineering is all the same whether bicycles, sewing machines or guns.

It was the facts {or not} re.the curved magazine part & the miniature railway company sten magazine manufacture you had made, that I was questioning., as clearly that's incorrect.

[David R]

Bren Gun magazines?

[spiral]

Bren gun was a Czechoslovakian design.. Made at Enfield from mid 30s.....

The curved magazine wasn't a problem. Everybody made them..

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by spiral

Bonjour! Ibrahim!

I am.

I have a list of many hundreds of engineering firms who made parts for machine guns, rifles, grenades or also like Singer sewing machines bayonets in ww1 or ww2.

Mechanical engineering is all the same whether bicycles, sewing machines or guns.

It was the facts {or not} re.the curved magazine part & the miniature railway company sten magazine manufacture you had made, that I was questioning., as clearly that's incorrect.

Salaams Spiral...In fact before I make a mistake and derail rather...the thread... I have checked my dates on this particular machine company and indeed they did make arms...the 75 mm ships cannon for example and the 9mm Pistol...but I will let you check that;please see http://singermemories.com/guns-sewing-machines/ and note I have pushed the envelope back more than 100 years so bringing a flavour of antiquity into my throw away remark on the Sten...which is rather too young a subject. ...The old chap who related the story to me may have got it mixed up...as I suggest with the Sten...if nothing else it perhaps illustrates how the modern era influenced weapons and in the case of the sword situation at thread how a modern machine part became part of an old sword...if in fact it did?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams Spiral...In fact before I make a mistake and derail rather...the thread... I have checked my dates on this particular machine company and indeed they did make arms...the 75 mm ships cannon for example and the 9mm Pistol...but I will let you check that;please see http://singermemories.com/guns-sewing-machines/ and note I have pushed the envelope back more than 100 years so bringing a flavour of antiquity into my throw away remark on the Sten...which is rather too young a subject. ...The old chap who related the story to me may have got it mixed up...as I suggest with the Sten...if nothing else it perhaps illustrates how the modern era influenced weapons and in the case of the sword situation at thread how a modern machine part became part of an old sword...if in fact it did?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Namaste! Ibrhaim! No one said singer didn't make arms Ibrahin..as I said most GB engineering firms did to a smaller or greater extent.

But thank you for all the filler words.

This is what I pointed out as fancifull... nothing else.....

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

The Stengun (Stirling Turpin Enfield) story also has an interesting tale in that no factories were able to make the curved magazine however a miniature railways company filled the gap as they had the machinery to make curved miniature railtrack and with some modifications were turning out magazines for the Sten in no time at all... .

Simples!