Fighting Techique?

[sirupate]

I had the pleasure of meeting Nidar Singh, and comparing kukri and sabre techniques, he certainly had defensive techniques with the Tulwar.
Also his use of the Dhal was much like in Nepal were the dhal was both offensive and defensive in its use, size being a factor in its effectiveness offensively.

[Stan S.]

Found an awsome video of a gatka fight with katars and small dhals. It starts with a stylized dance routine so be patient

LINKY

[sirupate]

Whenever I have the Sikh's demonstrating their Martial arts, it always seems very stylised, but In India in reports by the British they had a good reputation with their Tulwars, as in post on the 27th.

[Stan S.]

Originally Posted by sirupate

Whenever I have the Sikh's demonstrating their Martial arts, it always seems very stylised, but In India in reports by the British they had a good reputation with their Tulwars, as in post on the 27th.

It is stylized because unfortunately Indian martial arts is a dead art. However, there must be some elements of the "real" thing in Gatka and Shastar Vidya routines. While you really can not compare them to an actual fight (for instance, it is clear from all available videos that opponents goal is to strike the others shield rather than inflict bodily harm), I would imagine that the relationship between Gatka and a real duel is not unlike that between Olympic fencing and the renaissance fencing. I am not putting down the sport, nor am I comparing it to a dance routine (I myself am a fencer with almost a decade of experience under my belt). I am just trying to emphasize the point of Olympic fencing being very different from the duels held amongst Western aristocracy of a few centuries years ago, which in turn would be quite different from mass melees on the battle fields of the time.

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Has anyone ever encountered a small dhal that exhibits obvious signs of having been struck?

I have handled a brass dhal once with what looked like a long narrow dent running diogonally from left to right slightly spliting the edge/rim one one side and extending almost to the center. As much as I want to consider it being left by a tulwar blade, there is no way to verify this. It is the same as with many swords that may show "signs of use" such as nicks aroudn the sweet spot of the edge. While these could convince some that a sword was used in a battle, I always say that they are just as likely result of a previous owner's teenage son who used it to whack bushes in the backyard

On the other hand, I would love nothing more than to see a dented shield with an imprint of human teeth in the dent

[sirupate]

Stan S;It is stylized because unfortunately Indian martial arts is a dead art. However, there must be some elements of the "real" thing in Gatka and Shastar Vidya routines. While you really can not compare them to an actual fight (for instance, it is clear from all available videos that opponents goal is to strike the others shield rather than inflict bodily harm), I would imagine that the relationship between Gatka and a real duel is not unlike that between Olympic fencing and the renaissance fencing. I am not putting down the sport, nor am I comparing it to a dance routine (I myself am a fencer with almost a decade of experience under my belt). I am just trying to emphasize the point of Olympic fencing being very different from the duels held amongst Western aristocracy of a few centuries years ago, which in turn would be quite different from mass melees on the battle fields of the time.

When I met Nidar Singh earlier on this year, his explanation of technique was definitely Martial, and it was interesting comparing his sabre technique to British cavalry of the early 19th Century. Also his explanation of the way they use kukri was all about killing, and again interesting to compare his with ours.
Certainly at the battle of Aliwal and Sobraon the Sikhs performed well although their cavalry was easily dealt with by the cavalry under Sir Harry Smith, and the Sikhs reputation was excellent in the Indian Mutiny (by then I would suspect some British influence), so when did Sikh Martial arts stop being taught in a traditional way?