Unusual Balkan "Yataghan" for Comments

ALEX · 21st November 2011, 08:47 AM

Interesting sword. would not call it Yataghan though. the blade is Persian indeed. Could be made as a child sword, then later rehilted. the hilt and the way it's mounted resembles shaska. Does hilt split in the end?

Gavin Nugent · 21st November 2011, 10:34 AM

I wonder if this, with the animal faces on the hilt, that it may have been fashioned as a hunting sword using a recycled blade? I would personally want a guard to stop my hand slipping forward though.

TVV · 22nd November 2011, 07:14 AM

Thank you gentlemen,

Some great observations. The pommel forks per the attached photo. The way it forks to me is much more reminiscent of yataghans, rather than a shashka though. Also, the niello decoration is found on Greek items, such as #408 from Elgood's book (which also shows that it was used until the early 20th century, the Balkan Wars and WW1). I also found a nicer yataghan with niello decorated hilt and scabbard from a Bulgarian book on weapons, currently kept in Sofia or Varna (the picture captions contradict themselves).
Perhaps the blade was indeed made for a child, but not only is it shorter than usual, but also straight with a slight downward turn, so it was not meant to ever be a sabre by whoever made it. The animals depicted on the hilt are a horse and what I interpret as a lion (it sort of looks like a rat, but lion seems more plausible). I could only find one somewhat similar hilt in the Askeri Museum book about yataghans: the shape is similar and there is a border on the outer line just like the item in question and the other niello decorated yataghan.
We are in agreement about the blade - Persian and made for export. As far as the hilt, I am leaning toward Ioannina or somewhere else in Epirus. But I would love to read as many opinions as possible.
Thank you,
Teodor

TVV · 4th July 2012, 10:08 PM

My friend cleaned the blade up and revealed the attached inscription at the ricasso. I feel this warrants resurrecting the thread. Is the inscription legible, and can you please help translate?

Thank you,
Teodor

Dom · 6th July 2012, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TVV

can you please help translate?

Hi Teodor
nice initiative to have cleaned the blade ,
because on ricasso we might read the name of the blacksmith

ALLAH
MOHAMED
AMAL ZARIF (?) either MADE BY ZARIF (reading under reserve)
ALI HASSAN
several comments
- part of the mentions are religious, used in the sense of talismanic; Allah, Mohamed
and might be Ali, Hassan, the serial seems logic;
God, then his Prophet, the Prophet's son, the Prophet's grandson, those last two very revered by the Shiite
- the owner for this yatagan was Muslim, absolutly, but may be Shiite obedience
- the blacksmith is might be from Armenian community, if what we read as name is correct,
that's it for today

all the best

à +

Dom

TVV · 6th July 2012, 05:14 AM

Dom,

Thank you very much. Why do you think the maker was Armenian? The name Zarif certainly sounds Arabic in origin. The Shiite attribution makes perfect sense, as the blade looks Persian made to me based on the shape, the wootz and the lion stamp. I wonder on the inscription was placed at the base for the originally intended owner, or if such inscriptions were standard on Persian made blades.

Thank you again,
Teodor

Dom · 6th July 2012, 12:13 PM

Good Day Teodor,
how to say that the name "Zarif" is certainly Arabic in origin ?

it's because the evidence is not probative that I have put a (?) and wrote (reading under reserve)
the " tune " has been transcribed in European script, but don't sound Arabic at all

in fact, I looked for in the "net" what was answers with that spelling,
what I have found the nearest, is Armenian name (Zarifian)
now, I have I dug bit more, I found a Muslim (according with the first name), an "Zarif Mohamed"
Date :between 1875 et 1900
Record/Source: Frenchman disembarkation from boat in New York

so, our guy could be a Persian, that's is established

what which seems more or less standard is that some weapons, not only from Persia,
are signed by the blade-smith/blacksmith,
and sometimes added the name of the owner of the weapon is added ...
certainly at his request, for the second reference

for instance, I have in my small collection, a "Pala" with following mentions
- a mark stamped on blade by the blade-smith/blacksmith (untranslated ...yet, unsuccessful

)
- cartouche with owner name and date
- cartouche with identification of regiment
- cartouche with virile declaration against his enemy/enemies
all "cartouche" in gold koftgari, and for sure, have been done under request of the owner

at least that's what I think, but I'm not an expert, just an "amateur"

best regards

à +

Dom

22nd November 2011, 07:14 AM	#3
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,744	Thank you gentlemen, Some great observations. The pommel forks per the attached photo. The way it forks to me is much more reminiscent of yataghans, rather than a shashka though. Also, the niello decoration is found on Greek items, such as #408 from Elgood's book (which also shows that it was used until the early 20th century, the Balkan Wars and WW1). I also found a nicer yataghan with niello decorated hilt and scabbard from a Bulgarian book on weapons, currently kept in Sofia or Varna (the picture captions contradict themselves). Perhaps the blade was indeed made for a child, but not only is it shorter than usual, but also straight with a slight downward turn, so it was not meant to ever be a sabre by whoever made it. The animals depicted on the hilt are a horse and what I interpret as a lion (it sort of looks like a rat, but lion seems more plausible). I could only find one somewhat similar hilt in the Askeri Museum book about yataghans: the shape is similar and there is a border on the outer line just like the item in question and the other niello decorated yataghan. We are in agreement about the blade - Persian and made for export. As far as the hilt, I am leaning toward Ioannina or somewhere else in Epirus. But I would love to read as many opinions as possible. Thank you, Teodor Attached Images

21st November 2011, 08:47 AM	#1
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Interesting sword. would not call it Yataghan though. the blade is Persian indeed. Could be made as a child sword, then later rehilted. the hilt and the way it's mounted resembles shaska. Does hilt split in the end?

21st November 2011, 10:34 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	I wonder if this, with the animal faces on the hilt, that it may have been fashioned as a hunting sword using a recycled blade? I would personally want a guard to stop my hand slipping forward though.

4th July 2012, 10:08 PM	#4
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,744	My friend cleaned the blade up and revealed the attached inscription at the ricasso. I feel this warrants resurrecting the thread. Is the inscription legible, and can you please help translate? Thank you, Teodor Attached Images

6th July 2012, 05:14 AM	#6
TVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 1,744	Dom, Thank you very much. Why do you think the maker was Armenian? The name Zarif certainly sounds Arabic in origin. The Shiite attribution makes perfect sense, as the blade looks Persian made to me based on the shape, the wootz and the lion stamp. I wonder on the inscription was placed at the base for the originally intended owner, or if such inscriptions were standard on Persian made blades. Thank you again, Teodor

6th July 2012, 12:13 PM	#7
Dom Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Paris (FR*) Cairo (EG) Posts: 1,142	Good Day Teodor, how to say that the name "Zarif" is certainly Arabic in origin ? it's because the evidence is not probative that I have put a (?) and wrote (reading under reserve) the " tune " has been transcribed in European script, but don't sound Arabic at all in fact, I looked for in the "net" what was answers with that spelling, what I have found the nearest, is Armenian name (Zarifian) now, I have I dug bit more, I found a Muslim (according with the first name), an "Zarif Mohamed" Date :between 1875 et 1900 Record/Source: Frenchman disembarkation from boat in New York so, our guy could be a Persian, that's is established what which seems more or less standard is that some weapons, not only from Persia, are signed by the blade-smith/blacksmith, and sometimes added the name of the owner of the weapon is added ... certainly at his request, for the second reference for instance, I have in my small collection, a "Pala" with following mentions - a mark stamped on blade by the blade-smith/blacksmith (untranslated ...yet, unsuccessful ) - cartouche with owner name and date - cartouche with identification of regiment - cartouche with virile declaration against his enemy/enemies all "cartouche" in gold koftgari, and for sure, have been done under request of the owner at least that's what I think, but I'm not an expert, just an "amateur" best regards à + Dom