Sudanese kaskara - Arabic translation request

Lew · 10th November 2011, 04:48 PM

Here are the other two pics from the duplicate thread.

Jim McDougall · 10th November 2011, 11:44 PM

Thanks very much for sharing the native applied lion and cross and orb. It would be great to know more on the Islamic script added, which seems atypical on these post Mahdiyya kaskara. Hopefully Stephen might observe.

Iain · 10th November 2011, 11:56 PM

Looking again I'd have to say I agree Jim, certainly locally applied marks. Still wonder why the fly is missing... Odd. I still would say the blade has a good chance to be European, don't normally see a ricasso on a native blade.

Also hope Stephen can chime in here, he's seen far more of these swords than most of us!

Jim McDougall · 11th November 2011, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iain

Looking again I'd have to say I agree Jim, certainly locally applied marks. Still wonder why the fly is missing... Odd. I still would say the blade has a good chance to be European, don't normally see a ricasso on a native blade.

Also hope Stephen can chime in here, he's seen far more of these swords than most of us!

Well observed Iain! That is an excellent point of reference in examining these blades as the native armourers were most capable of forging sound blades which almost mirrored the Solingen exports. I always wish we could discover more on the nature of the products which were made explicitely for these markets. From what I have understood from the great work Ed produced on Kasalla, the relatively small cadre of makers did have some degree of variation in thier application of these interpretative marks. It does seem the use of the lion on one side and cross and orb on the other were a fairly common combination. The 'Kull' marking seems to have occurred somewhat separately, but cant recall offhand details.
Where's Ed!!!?????

All the best,
Jim

AJ1356 · 11th November 2011, 05:44 AM

The writing on this is beautiful, and done masterfully. Some one took long, painfull hours to inscibe them on the blade.

Michael Blalock · 11th November 2011, 04:45 PM

It is beautiful writing. It must have been some sort of reverse or negative of the typical acid etching you see on the typical kaskara.

Edster · 11th November 2011, 11:59 PM

Colin,

Great sword!!! My knowledge is limited, but may add another ingredient to the stew. My guess is it isn't from Kassala based mainly on the handle wrap. The blade looks thick in the photograph. Hasn't been sharpened in years. Probably old. Grip it with the blade pointing up and snap your wrist. If the blade vibrates for a few seconds, it may be made from lorry spring stock. Likewise, does it bend / deflect maybe 15 degrees or more? Some of the modern Kassala blades could almost bend double for someone who was skilled at the demonstration.

The calligraphy is very stylistic. Not the style of a suq al haddad worker, maybe a silver smith. No doubt the translation may put into a context. Is it engraved or more likely etched? Modern (1986 is the limit of my personal experience with the sword smiths.) marks are often just scratches into the blade or made with a crude punch.

The lion is stylistically sophisticated, and may be the calligrapher's mark rather than that of the blade maker. No opinion on the orb and cross. Line width is more narrow that the calligraphy and that may have meaning. Is it the same depth?

I'll be eager to learn more about this outstanding item.

Regards,
Ed

10th November 2011, 04:48 PM	#1
Lew (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: East Coast USA Posts: 3,191	Here are the other two pics from the duplicate thread. Attached Images

10th November 2011, 11:44 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,295	Thanks very much for sharing the native applied lion and cross and orb. It would be great to know more on the Islamic script added, which seems atypical on these post Mahdiyya kaskara. Hopefully Stephen might observe.

10th November 2011, 11:56 PM	#3
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	Looking again I'd have to say I agree Jim, certainly locally applied marks. Still wonder why the fly is missing... Odd. I still would say the blade has a good chance to be European, don't normally see a ricasso on a native blade. Also hope Stephen can chime in here, he's seen far more of these swords than most of us!

11th November 2011, 05:44 AM	#5
AJ1356 Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Nashville Posts: 317	The writing on this is beautiful, and done masterfully. Some one took long, painfull hours to inscibe them on the blade.

11th November 2011, 04:45 PM	#6
Michael Blalock Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: dc Posts: 271	It is beautiful writing. It must have been some sort of reverse or negative of the typical acid etching you see on the typical kaskara.

11th November 2011, 11:59 PM	#7
Edster Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 415	Colin, Great sword!!! My knowledge is limited, but may add another ingredient to the stew. My guess is it isn't from Kassala based mainly on the handle wrap. The blade looks thick in the photograph. Hasn't been sharpened in years. Probably old. Grip it with the blade pointing up and snap your wrist. If the blade vibrates for a few seconds, it may be made from lorry spring stock. Likewise, does it bend / deflect maybe 15 degrees or more? Some of the modern Kassala blades could almost bend double for someone who was skilled at the demonstration. The calligraphy is very stylistic. Not the style of a suq al haddad worker, maybe a silver smith. No doubt the translation may put into a context. Is it engraved or more likely etched? Modern (1986 is the limit of my personal experience with the sword smiths.) marks are often just scratches into the blade or made with a crude punch. The lion is stylistically sophisticated, and may be the calligrapher's mark rather than that of the blade maker. No opinion on the orb and cross. Line width is more narrow that the calligraphy and that may have meaning. Is it the same depth? I'll be eager to learn more about this outstanding item. Regards, Ed