Would like to know your opinion about this carita blade

Sajen · 2nd November 2011, 08:32 PM

Thank you both! My mistake, sorry. Normally I should know that's a pandai saras keris.

Blade is 35 cm long without pesi.

Regards,

Detlef

PenangsangII · 3rd November 2011, 03:03 AM

Congrats Sajen for an exquisite pandai saras of Gajah Tikor profile. Highly sought after in Malaysia. Let me know if you get tired with it....

Sajen · 3rd November 2011, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Congrats Sajen for an exquisite pandai saras of Gajah Tikor profile. Highly sought after in Malaysia. Let me know if you get tired with it....

Thank you Penangsang!

Please can you explain "Tikor"? "Gajah" means elephant, correct? And which sarung is correct for this blade? And, sorry, I don't think that I will get soon tired with it!

Regards,

Detlef

PenangsangII · 4th November 2011, 10:12 AM

Hi Sajen,

Gajah means elephant
Tikor means big or great

gajah tikor is a keris terminology in Pattani and Northern Peninsula describing a keris lurus with curvy profile such as yours. Gajah Tikor is to describe the matured elephant tusk like profile - big and curvy

A. G. Maisey · 4th November 2011, 11:36 AM

Penangsang, can you tell us what language the word "tikor" is from?

Thanks.

David · 4th November 2011, 02:51 PM

I can find reference to Gajah Tikor in The Malay Keris by Wooley in the Glossary of Keris Terms as follows and attributed to Skeat:
Gajah Tikor (? Likor): a keris with one wave di-pangkal (Skeat)

A. G. Maisey · 4th November 2011, 09:19 PM

Thank you David.

Yes, Woolley lists the term,and I take Skeat to be an unimpeachable source, but I cannot find the word "tikor" as Malay word. Further, the Woolley entry does not make sense to me for a number of reasons that I will not go into here.

The word "tikor" is found in a number of on-line dictionaries with the meaning of "east indian arrowroot plant", as well as some other irrelevant meanings.

The use of names of plants and flowers is quite common in keris terminology, and the area where this keris comes from is part of the East Indies. I suspect that the original use of the term as associated with keris had this relationship, but by Skeat's time it had acquired another meaning, by our time, another meaning again.

These are possibilities, but there is another possibility, and that is that confusion surrounds the term, so that perhaps it means different things to different people; this is not at all uncommon in matters to do with keris.

Whenever I find a term associated with keris, that I have not previously encountered, I try to find out what it means, and where it comes from.

If there is an Old Javanese association, consideration can be given to associating the keris itself to the time when that language was in use.

If the association points to Modern Javanese, or to Indonesian, or to Malay, or to some other language, that can assist with identification of origin in both time and place, and in the case of Bahasa Indonesia, with authenticity, for example, if we find an Indonesian term applied to a Javanese or Balinese keris, we need to question just how accurate that term is.

Language can act as a signpost. Sometimes the signpost might get twisted and you finish up nowhere, but it is always worth investigation.

2nd November 2011, 08:32 PM	#1
Sajen Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Germany, Dortmund Posts: 9,270	Thank you both! My mistake, sorry. Normally I should know that's a pandai saras keris. Blade is 35 cm long without pesi. Regards, Detlef

3rd November 2011, 03:03 AM	#2
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Congrats Sajen for an exquisite pandai saras of Gajah Tikor profile. Highly sought after in Malaysia. Let me know if you get tired with it....

4th November 2011, 10:12 AM	#4
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Hi Sajen, Gajah means elephant Tikor means big or great gajah tikor is a keris terminology in Pattani and Northern Peninsula describing a keris lurus with curvy profile such as yours. Gajah Tikor is to describe the matured elephant tusk like profile - big and curvy

4th November 2011, 11:36 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Penangsang, can you tell us what language the word "tikor" is from? Thanks.

4th November 2011, 02:51 PM	#6
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,228	I can find reference to Gajah Tikor in The Malay Keris by Wooley in the Glossary of Keris Terms as follows and attributed to Skeat: Gajah Tikor (? Likor): a keris with one wave di-pangkal (Skeat)

4th November 2011, 09:19 PM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,047	Thank you David. Yes, Woolley lists the term,and I take Skeat to be an unimpeachable source, but I cannot find the word "tikor" as Malay word. Further, the Woolley entry does not make sense to me for a number of reasons that I will not go into here. The word "tikor" is found in a number of on-line dictionaries with the meaning of "east indian arrowroot plant", as well as some other irrelevant meanings. The use of names of plants and flowers is quite common in keris terminology, and the area where this keris comes from is part of the East Indies. I suspect that the original use of the term as associated with keris had this relationship, but by Skeat's time it had acquired another meaning, by our time, another meaning again. These are possibilities, but there is another possibility, and that is that confusion surrounds the term, so that perhaps it means different things to different people; this is not at all uncommon in matters to do with keris. Whenever I find a term associated with keris, that I have not previously encountered, I try to find out what it means, and where it comes from. If there is an Old Javanese association, consideration can be given to associating the keris itself to the time when that language was in use. If the association points to Modern Javanese, or to Indonesian, or to Malay, or to some other language, that can assist with identification of origin in both time and place, and in the case of Bahasa Indonesia, with authenticity, for example, if we find an Indonesian term applied to a Javanese or Balinese keris, we need to question just how accurate that term is. Language can act as a signpost. Sometimes the signpost might get twisted and you finish up nowhere, but it is always worth investigation.