Jamdhar Katari?

[AJ1356]

I seriousely doubt it is a number the maker gave, somewhat unusual. My money would be on trying to get more money out of it, however with the newer seal it does not make much sense. But then again the maker probably did not think that far ahead.

Correction on the earlier post, the so called mosque in the seal in not a mosque at all, I remembered it at the gym. It is actually a Mehraab and Munbar, let's call it the alter area of a mosque, for those who are not familiar with inside of the mosques.

[Lew]

Here is the link to the one I posted some years back.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...Jamdhar+Katari

[Jim McDougall]

While this dagger is clearly a quite modern piece, as always I still look to learn on the history of the weapon it is intended to replicate and what significance there might be to the markings or motif. Although my fascination with this pursuit is not often particularly widely shared, I follow this course and write for those who might be.

As I have mentioned, the type of dagger is from the Kafir heritage regions now Nuristan which was invaded by Amir Abdur Rahman Khan of Afghanistan in the 19th century. The Kafirs who refused to subjugate to the Amir and accept Islam fled into the Chitral regions, and those remaining in then Kafiristan became essentially 'Afghan' or under that suzerainty.

The poorly executed scribed markings represent the emblem of Afghanistan in modern times, but the image of the mosque derives from the reign of Abdur Rahman Khan (r.1880-1901). We have discovered that the markings found on a number of swords attributed to the period of his rule are very much the same as those found on coinage issued by his reign, in particular the mosque depicted, which indeed in most cases most resembles a mehraab.

In my opinion, the reason the famed mosque at Mazir i Sharif seems at least temporally depicted on the coinage and in the stamps on blades presumed to be of the royal armoury located there is because this was in effect the provincial capital of Afghanistan . Also, the importance of this mosque in the Faith as the Holy Shrine is significantly placed, and seems to suggest this being the most likely represented. It is situated far in the north nearly at the Uzbekistan border, and was unaffected during any of the Anglo-Afghan wars, and near the ancient city of Balkh. It was the refuge for Emir Sher Ali and significant in the Barakzai Dynasty of which Emir Abdur Rahman Khan was a key ruler.
Abdur Rahman Khan was the first to create what was to became the actual state of Afghanistan, and negotiated with the British which resulted in protection and subsidies (Treaty of Gandamak). It was during these times that the adoption of heraldic style devices seem to have come from the British association. As far as I have found the first coins bearing the stylized mosque/mehraab occur in 1892. Subsequent issues continued with more detail added to resemble minarets and military arms and flags, all had a wreath surround and issues by his son Habibullah continued.

The earliest swords I have seen with the deep stamp carrying this same image seem to concur with the dates of these coins issuance.

Regarding the number/date inscribed 1132, may represent 1132 AH (1720CE). The important Islamic scholar and spiritual guide Alawi al Haddad (1634-1132AH) died that year. He was a poet and author of devotional songs who was from Hadhramawt, but of course his teachings were widely known and important in Islamic scholarship.

Interestingly during his reign Abdur Rahman Khan's flag was a black flag without any type of devices or writing. His son added the symbolic emblem seen on the coinage , which later became the emblem of Afghanistan.

Regardless of the nature of this modern dagger, these are the historic elements associated with it as far as I can find.

[Jim McDougall]

Hits to 195 today It makes me glad to see viewers reading this material and very much worthwhile writing. Thank you very much readers

[A.alnakkas]

Hey Jim, thanks alot for the informative reply. To me, your comments are a treasure.

While I cannot say much about the history, nor do I doubt it, the only thing am willing to dispute is the connection to the death of a scholar. I simply think this dagger is a modern piece used like any modern jambiya is used, the maker wanted to add more attractiveness to it so he added the date. Its the most plausible conclusion I think.

None the less, this dagger is of an interesting time to me.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by A.alnakkas

Hey Jim, thanks alot for the informative reply. To me, your comments are a treasure.

While I cannot say much about the history, nor do I doubt it, the only thing am willing to dispute is the connection to the death of a scholar. I simply think this dagger is a modern piece used like any modern jambiya is used, the maker wanted to add more attractiveness to it so he added the date. Its the most plausible conclusion I think.

None the less, this dagger is of an interesting time to me.

Thank you for the kind words Abdullatif, much appreciated. Actually when I see dates specifically on a weapon, particularly on a more modern version of the type or on a date shown which in out of conjunction with the period of the weapon, I look for clues of significant events in that year.
Interestingly on the dates shown on many European swords, these are not actual dates but typically encrypted numbers with magical significance, or sometimes even Bible passages. For example I have seen many swords of 17th and even 18th century with 1414 or 1441 on them. These are not dates obviously but numbers with magical meaning in combination.

In Islamic swords, the 'bedouh' is a square comprised of numbers carrying these talismanic properties as well, and numerology is as I understand often found in these kinds of use.

The combination 1132 as a date is simply speculation, and of course it would be tenuous at best to presume connection, though the remote possibility exists, so I mentioned this notation.

To me the weapons are icons of history, and even modern examples reflect depictions or recollections of the types and events around thier influencing counterparts. I enjoyed learning more on this one and really do thank you for sharing it, it was a fun trip down memory lane too!

All the very best,
Jim

[DaveA]

I purchased this jamdhar katari not too long ago from another forumite. A fascinating piece. I am especially happy to read Lew's posts for background! The history of that area is fascinating. Thanks Lew.

- Dave A.

[Stan S.]

Beautiful!

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by DaveA

I purchased this jamdhar katari not too long ago from another forumite. A fascinating piece. I am especially happy to read Lew's posts for background! The history of that area is fascinating. Thanks Lew.

- Dave A.

Thank you for posting this Dave!!! I will add this to my notes which have been greatly augmented by Lew's posts as well !!!!

[Rick]

Would it appear totally jaded of me to suggest that these examples shown are meant for others to purchase; those who chose employment that is 'not just a career; but an adventure' ?

Regardless of nation, of course; so many have passed through since Sikander.

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Rick

Would it appear totally jaded of me to suggest that these examples shown are meant for others to purchase; those who chose employment that is 'not just a career; but an adventure' ?

Regardless of nation, of course; so many have passed through since Sikander.

The "Great Game" Rick!!!

[DaveA]

Rick,

Regardless of intent behind their manufacture, these are fine pieces of craft, representative of the style, from a far-flung people in a rarely visited part of the world. I for one am very happy to have this item in my collection and to have opened my eyes to a culture I never knew before now.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by DaveA

Rick,

Regardless of intent behind their manufacture, these are fine pieces of craft, representative of the style, from a far-flung people in a rarely visited part of the world. I for one am very happy to have this item in my collection and to have opened my eyes to a culture I never knew before now.

My exact feeling. Its a nice item, I usually trade away items that are "dubious" but I like this one :P

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by DaveA

Rick,

Regardless of intent behind their manufacture, these are fine pieces of craft, representative of the style, from a far-flung people in a rarely visited part of the world. I for one am very happy to have this item in my collection and to have opened my eyes to a culture I never knew before now.

Well said. I am curious though, which culture are you referring to?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by DaveA

I purchased this jamdhar katari not too long ago from another forumite. A fascinating piece. I am especially happy to read Lew's posts for background! The history of that area is fascinating. Thanks Lew.

- Dave A.

Salaams Dave... Can you direct me to the history you speak of having been sent by Lew as I have looked everywhere but just cannot track it?
Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi