Kattara for comments

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by kahnjar1

OK this raises the question of the swords you advertise as Omani. Assuming your description is correct, then these ALL would have flexible blades??

Salaams,
Your question is possibly badly placed. With respect it is a commercial question and I cannot address it on the forum. However, I would have thought that information being freshly researched would be gratefully received so that we are not in the dark regarding a swords provenance.

In trying to assess a blade as Omani to date there have been no mistakes in the final analysis. I will agree that getting there is a bumpy ride but well worth the effort. So far this thread has cracked the origin of the Old Omani Kattara with a forum accepted date of 751 AD. I believe we have a duty to examine thoroughly the new version, no?

Geographical influence ~(The UAE, RAK and the entire region up almost as far as Bahrain and including Gwadur in Baluchistan and Zanzibar were Omani for many centuries..The Shihuh tribe today, in fact, straddle Oman and the UAE. A Kattara made in a Shehe workshop is therefor Omani 100% by tradition . I think you misunderstand the origin of species not only of the swords but of the tribes also... They all dance the Funun whether in the UAE or Oman because not so long ago this was all one region.

~ Granted it was a series of splintered Fiefdoms but socially it was very much one entity. Having said that there is a rich diversity. Religiously take for example RAK.. Ibathi , Hamaffi, Shaffaii, Maliki, Hamberli; all with their own style and history all different interpretations but all the same...Islamic. They all do the Funoon sword dance and fighting mimicry with the (New) Kattara and Terrs ~

Omans History. What many may not understand is what swords were used in Oman after they ousted the Abbassids 1200 years ago? Essentially after the Abbasids left, Oman was peaceful and prosperous and sea trade flourished exponentially. This period of peace lasted nearly 400 years during which time the Old Omani Battle Sword spread all over Oman ~ Coast, Mountains and Interior.

What is important to realise is that in the 16th to 18th Centuries Oman did not have a warring Interior versus Coastal Belt using different swords e.g. . Coastal Oman Sayf curved weapons versus Interior straight Kattara.. when in fact they used the same swords; mainly Old Kattara though doubtless there were others ..Sayfs Shamshir etc. So the advent of a new blade would change the entire country sword stock though I argue not instantly but over time and perhaps 100 years or more. Change through fashionable choice via a cottage industry output and then acceptance into the Funoon; rather than huge industrial production and direct influx of Trade Blades out of Europe. I chose the word "direct" carefully since no evidence is available showing the blade moving gradually through Africa. Equally no evidence exists of a sudden influx of Trade Blades from Europe... not a shread..Its all here say!

This weapon was an Icon of Heraldic proportions.

Consider the socio-religio- political implications of a so called new sword from Europe ??

We are being fed (by association) without proof that somehow a European Trade Blade superceded this Iconic weapon, taking not only its name but the Terrrs Shield into the bargain..and with a woft of the hand "in the 17th C." ? We have seen this quality of guesswork before with spurious wild assessments of the Old Kattara some said was 16th C and some said was 10th. I know a museum that have one dated 19thC!

It seems linked, by association, to the flood of European Trade Blades into Africa. The instantaneous arrival and sudden acceptance of a European sword into Oman being apparently automatic, absolute and unquestioned ... until now.

Without proof, no research, heresay and with mere association I find that difficult to believe thus I have earmarked a closer to home explanation illustrating known blade stamps from the Ras al Khaimah where Omani (new) Kattara are produced there to this day. They already have a reputation of knife/blade making/ leather scabbard and hilt making and my investigations may lead to more discoveries and perhaps the origin of the old Kattara manufacture. I do not however rule out other manufacturing centres and it would not surprise me to find New Kattara from Muscat, Sohar, Zanzibar, Madagascar or Nizwa. (There is a new factory in Salalah making tourist new kattara by Pakistani craftsmen but that is recent and unrelated to this research.)

I believe that all Omani (New) Kattara must have flexible blades. You cannot dance or perform the (new) Funun with a sword which doesn't flex. Fight training with a non flexible heavier blade and using the Terrs is lop sided and awkward. Should we discover, however, that there is a branch of Omani New Kattara that occur with stiff blades that do/do not use the Terrs Shield I would be the first to report on it.

The straight Kattara in your photo has a Saudia or Yemeni blade and could be a one off, or a hybrid.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Photos attached show;
Long Flexible Spatulate Tipped (New) Kattara. and stamps identified as Ras Al Khaimah workshops stamps... stars (Nijimaat) and a new style of "God is Great" insignia. The (New) Kattara was made with pommel, tang and blade as an "all in one" product.

The long flexible "style" Omani (New) Kattara Circa 17th Century and Claimed to be a European Trade Blade alongside the shorter Old Omani Kattara with distinctive turned down quillons and Islamic hilt..The Old Omani Kattara. Circa 751 A.D.

[kahnjar1]

[QUOTE=Ibrahiim al Balooshi]Salaams,
Your question is possibly badly placed. With respect it is a commercial question and I cannot address it on the forum.

OK I see your point, so I will rephrase. Of the many "new" Omani swords you see, what % of these are true Omani, with flexible blade?

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

[QUOTE=kahnjar1]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams,
Your question is possibly badly placed. With respect it is a commercial question and I cannot address it on the forum.

OK I see your point, so I will rephrase. Of the many "new" Omani swords you see, what % of these are true Omani, with flexible blade?

Salaams,
Not counting the tourist items I would say all Omani new style (that is of the "supposed" European Trade Blade 17th C design) straight Kattara are fully flexible and true Omani by definition.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[ariel]

Hi Ibrahim,
What do you think of this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400240311416#ht_1488wt_1348

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by ariel

Hi Ibrahim,
What do you think of this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400240311416#ht_1488wt_1348

Salaams~ I see that the auction is finished ~ So I will tell you exactly what that is.

Omani 751 AD Short Kattara Battlesword. Needless to say it is not Moorish.. but Omani. It is not 17th C design but 8thC. This thread deals with exactly this weapon. It is the early Omani Kattara. Someone has won a nice early Omani Kattara. The Hilt looks original. The blade may need a second look as some of the later blades were flatter and not as stiff... I would be looking for dot or dots and the famous wing shaped blade cross section(though dots are not vital). One of the quillons has the end missing... not a problem..Battle Damage ?..On these swords the hilt may be tubular or more originally eight sided. There ought to be three holes in the hilt The bottom two for holding the hilt together and the top one, just below the pommel, for a wrist strap.

The Omani Short Battle Sword (Kattara) 8thC. Pre-cursor to the long flexible (dancing) Omani Kattara of 17thC? which is supposedly said to be a European Trade Blade? but argued by me as a Local Omani Production
[ NOW UNDER THE SPOTLIGHT]
Nice Sword !!!

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Here is some shock and awe !!!

Salaams,

The Debate on dating The (New) (FLEXIBLE) Omani Kattara and its origins. Some important dates etc ;

1. The Portuguese did not leave Muscat until they were forced out in 1650. It is impossible, therefor, for bladed weapons to have entered Muscat in the first half i.e. 1600 to 1650.

2. In Europe iron was extremely expensive until a method of smelting was discovered using coke viz;

The iron industry benefited also from other early inventions of the 18th century. Iron was scarce and costly, and production was falling off because England's forests could not supply enough charcoal for smelting the ore. Ironmasters had long been experimenting with coal as a fuel for smelting. Finally the Darby family, after three generations of effort, succeeded with coal that had been transformed into coke. This created a new demand for coal and laid the foundation for the British coal industry.

3. It is unlikely that mass produced blades could have been attempted before 1780 because viz Following the development above ~ The next great steps were taken in the 1780s, when Henry Cort developed the processes of puddling and rolling. Puddling produced nearly pure malleable iron. Hand in hand with the adoption of the new inventions went the rapid development of the factory system of manufacture.

Therefor if the arguement for European Industrial Trade Blades 17th C collapses.

This is on going "hot" research... I also have to report that sword production in Ras Al Khaimah is only recent having interviewed the elders... Perhaps 40 or 50 years only. They are develish clever.. copiers.. though they do make good swords! and they are Omani. They copy all sorts of stamps... but are now written off as "original" manufacturers ~

The new source of original (New) Omani Kattara is Salalah ! and that brings with it the likely involvement of The Yemen and is well placed on the Camel Train framework for supply and distribution.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[Michael Blalock]

Thats a good deal you got there Ariel.

[A.alnakkas]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Here is some shock and awe !!!

Salaams,

The Debate on dating The (New) (FLEXIBLE) Omani Kattara and its origins. Some important dates etc ;

1. The Portuguese did not leave Muscat until they were forced out in 1850. It is impossible, therefor, for bladed weapons to have entered Muscat in the first half i.e. 1600 to 1650.

2. In Europe iron was extremely expensive until a method of smelting was discovered using coke viz;

The iron industry benefited also from other early inventions of the 18th century. Iron was scarce and costly, and production was falling off because England's forests could not supply enough charcoal for smelting the ore. Ironmasters had long been experimenting with coal as a fuel for smelting. Finally the Darby family, after three generations of effort, succeeded with coal that had been transformed into coke. This created a new demand for coal and laid the foundation for the British coal industry.

3. It is unlikely that mass produced blades could have been attempted before 1780 because viz Following the development above ~ The next great steps were taken in the 1780s, when Henry Cort developed the processes of puddling and rolling. Puddling produced nearly pure malleable iron. Hand in hand with the adoption of the new inventions went the rapid development of the factory system of manufacture.

Therefor if the arguement for European Industrial Trade Blades 17th C collapses.

This is on going "hot" research... I also have to report that sword production in Ras Al Khaimah is only recent having interviewed the elders... Perhaps 40 or 50 years only. They are develish clever.. copiers.. though they do make good swords! and they are Omani. They copy all sorts of stamps... but are now written off as "original" manufacturers ~

The new source of original (New) Omani Kattara is Salalah ! and that brings with it the likely involvement of The Yemen and is well placed on the Camel Train framework for supply and distribution.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Salam Alaikum,

First, I do not think that the european industrial blade argument is dismantled in your answer. Your answer does not really answers the question actually.

It must be noted that the majority of european trade blades do not come from england, rather they come from Almajar (Hungary) or Germany. As far as I know, Germany imported steel from Sweden and there wasnt really any issue there. Your answer however, focuses on England which blade's are rare here (wilkinson blades being mostly sold to ethiopia but those are easy to tell apart from other blades)

What I find interesting in the Kattara is that it stayed landlocked in Oman and what is now the UAE... why was this form not adopted by other arabs? even though they were connected tribally (Bani Kaab tribe being the most obvious, as it exist in alBasra, Kuwait, AlAhwaz, Qatar and Oman/UAE) Why was the Badawi/syrian hilt style become dominant? keep in mind that there are straight blades with badawi hilt, they are called Garda.

Now to my opinion regarding your quest, I think its very good and respect worthy, but as an advice, when it comes to weapons and other important goods, forget about what might seem as religious barriers :-)

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by ariel

Hi Ibrahim,
What do you think of this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400240311416#ht_1488wt_1348

Before it falls through the cracks.....

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by freebooter

Before it falls through the cracks.....

Salaams freebooter is there a stamp on the blade?

This is the classic old Omani stiff pointed short sword...Sayf..Tied to the origin of species at 751 AD and rolling on for over 1000 years. Local name for the Omani Short ... Sayf Yamani.

The forerunner to the flexible sword. Both called Sayf and both using the Terrs shield.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; I have two like this with no stamp. I suspect Yemen as the manufacturing base or Nizwa... Investigating the latter now. The 3 holes in the hilt for securing the hilt to a wooden core whilst the 3rd near the octagonal pommel for a wriststrap. See my comparison on this thread to the Abassid weapon.

[Gavin Nugent]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams freebooter is there a stamp on the blade?

This is the classic old Omani stiff pointed short sword...Sayf..Tied to the origin of species at 751 AD and rolling on for over 1000 years. Local name for the Omani Short ... Sayf Yamani.

The forerunner to the flexible sword. Both called Sayf and both using the Terrs shield.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

Note; I have two like this with no stamp. I suspect Yemen as the manufacturing base or Nizwa... Investigating the latter now. The 3 holes in the hilt for securing the hilt to a wooden core whilst the 3rd near the octagonal pommel for a wriststrap. See my comparison on this thread to the Abassid weapon.

Dear Ibrahiim, I have simply provided the images from a previous link posted...the sword is I believe Ariels

There sabre version of the Oman sword has been discussed as perhaps being influenced by EU and Caucasian blades.
Was silverwork on these sabres also "perhaps" influenced through this trade? I ask as I have a fine Omani sabre with the correct "native" blade that has silverwork in the style of, although not executed as well as Dagestan silver work found on some Shashka.

Thanks for a wonderful and sometimes mindblowing in depth discussion.

Gav