Kattara for comments

[laEspadaAncha]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

For my own (and possibly others') clarity, when you discuss "wing-shaped" swords or blades, are you speaking of a blade with a lenticular cross section, i.e., a double-edged, "flattened" oval?

Also, can you please elucidate in detail the blade profile of the Omani swords you believe to be of indigenous form and which you describe as being "flat" by comparison (with regards to presence of lack of distal taper, thickness, etc.)?

As a "math guy," I guess I am surprised I don't see more quantitative analysis of measurable parameters in the study of arms & armor, such as blade length, width, profile, as well as easily measures yes/no parameters (e.g., taper, distal taper, etc.). In fact, the only time I can recall seeing tables of data was in regards to a New Zealand study of Polynesian (or maybe pan-Oceanic) war clubs (I'm guessing there are probably more out there, but just not in my nascent library). It's the least subjective of expression of form, and I would think a proper statistical analysis of the respective blade forms would be the least interpretive way to test - or support - your theory.

Cheers,

Chris

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Salaams Ibrahiim,

For my own (and possibly others') clarity, when you discuss "wing-shaped" swords or blades, are you speaking of a blade with a lenticular cross section, i.e., a double-edged, "flattened" oval?

Also, can you please elucidate in detail the blade profile of the Omani swords you believe to be of indigenous form and which you describe as being "flat" by comparison (with regards to presence of lack of distal taper, thickness, etc.)?

As a "math guy," I guess I am surprised I don't see more quantitative analysis of measurable parameters in the study of arms & armor, such as blade length, width, profile, as well as easily measures yes/no parameters (e.g., taper, distal taper, etc.). In fact, the only time I can recall seeing tables of data was in regards to a New Zealand study of Polynesian (or maybe pan-Oceanic) war clubs (I'm guessing there are probably more out there, but just not in my nascent library). It's the least subjective of expression of form, and I would think a proper statistical analysis of the respective blade forms would be the least interpretive way to test - or support - your theory.

Cheers,

Chris

Salaams Chris,

Wrapped inside your well placed call for mathematical analysis is an assumption that we are able to pinpoint origin of species ...however we cannot. I would dearly love to stick the calipers on an original new so called 17th C (New Omani Kattara). In itself this is also not going to help if there is no standard length or weight because of the cottage industry style of production I think we are looking at. Every Omani Kattara I see and there are hundreds already viewed are all different in some small way. What is the same, or similar, is the flexibility. Stiff blades do not qualify. How do I put that into mathematical terms ? The bend is through about 90 degrees and the blade when subjected to this test springs immediately back to shape. Any blade that does not bend and return to shape after this simple test is not an Oman (New) Kattara.

The peculiar point being that its predecessor, with the same name, was a short weapon capable of slash cut and stab is a stiff unflexible blade originating in the 8th C. and is superceded by the new blade form in the 17th C (Supposedly)

What is under examination is ~ Is this new sword a European Trade Blade? If not what are its origins ?

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[laEspadaAncha]

Salaams Ibrahiim,

The measurements themselves, e.g., length, width, cross section, et al, would serve as the mathematical terms for such a study. A proper statistical analysis of the distribution of these measurements might allow for someone to cross-correlate the measurements with a likely place of origin/production, and in turn, evaluate the probable origin of a specific example by comparing it to this distribution. While you may not be able to pinpoint the origin of an entire type or form, theoretically you might be able to formulate a theory of origin of a respective type by comparing the measurements of individual examples with a known provenance/origin to the (statistical) distribution of the group...

Cheers,

Chris

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by laEspadaAncha

Salaams Ibrahiim,

The measurements themselves, e.g., length, width, cross section, et al, would serve as the mathematical terms for such a study. A proper statistical analysis of the distribution of these measurements might allow for someone to cross-correlate the measurements with a likely place of origin/production, and in turn, evaluate the probable origin of a specific example by comparing it to this distribution. While you may not be able to pinpoint the origin of an entire type or form, theoretically you might be able to formulate a theory of origin of a respective type by comparing the measurements of individual examples with a known provenance/origin to the (statistical) distribution of the group...

Cheers,

Chris

Salaams Chris, That all sounds great in theory, however, in practise all but impossible. To date I have not seen two blades that are the same except for 3 brand new items from a workshop I now know well. Whilst that statement goes someway to disproving the European (industrial) Trade Blade connection because Industrial Trade Blades of one type are all the same technically and identical. I have no idea how to apply it. As you may appreciate Im working in a vacuum largely in the dark and without a safety net !

Regards, Ibrahiim al Balooshi.