like your opinion on this Palembang keris

A. G. Maisey · 25th October 2011, 10:48 PM

Mr. Kerner and Mr. Jensen have both now been promoted to a higher existence.

Both were refined and gentle men, giving true meaning to the term "gentleman".

My feeling is that the ideas of both should be permitted to rest.

I disagree strongly with this "vieled Durga" terminology, and I have somewhat of a problem with "balu mekabun" also ---"balu" is Old Javanese for "widow", but "mekabun"? I do not know the word, nor "kabun", and I cannot find it in Old Javanese, Modern Javanese, Balinese, Kawi, nor Indonesian. I could be utterly wrong, but to me it looks very much like a corrupted spelling, and the name as a whole a combination of words put together from different languages.

Look at the word "mekabun". "Me" can be a prefix, and if the second part of the word was "kebun" we would have prefix "me" + "garden". But even then we would not have a recognisable word, because "mekebun" is grammatically incorrect.As a "garden" related word, it simply does not exist.

My feeling is that the term "balu mekabun" was the invention of some western person who half understood some Indonesian language. Now, my reasoning could be totally incorrect:- "balu mekabun" might be a language or dialect that I do not know; it might be Palembang dialect. Can anybody identify this term as coming from any Indonesian language?

I feel that both of these terms should be left to lay without further debate, but that a new and supportable term be coined for this hilt form, pending the time when some interested party actually goes into the field and obtains the generally used local name for this form --- and that may not be so easy at the present time.

I think of this form as "Palembang symbolic figural", or just "Palembang figural".

David seems to like "Batman".

Perhaps somebody else might like to propose a name that will not generate disagreement when it is used?

BluErf · 27th October 2011, 02:04 PM

Did someone call for batman?

PenangsangII · 28th October 2011, 06:24 AM

i would suspect that the term ''balu mekabun'' derives from ''balu berkabung''. It is a Malay term for ''mourning widow''. Philosophically, the hilt of a keris in the olden days is often exposed for everyone to see. Its a warning to those who dare try to create problems with the wearer of the keris hilted with this design / motif. Something like, ''widow maker'' signage for everone to see. ''if you try to be funny with me, think about your wife at home who will definitely mourn your death''. Unfortunately, i am not able to provide any reference for this.

Sajen · 29th October 2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

David seems to like "Batman".

Perhaps somebody else might like to propose a name that will not generate disagreement when it is used?

What is about: "Person-who-lost-his-face-hilt" ?

27th October 2011, 02:04 PM	#2
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Did someone call for batman? Attached Images

28th October 2011, 06:24 AM	#3
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	balu mekabun?? i would suspect that the term ''balu mekabun'' derives from ''balu berkabung''. It is a Malay term for ''mourning widow''. Philosophically, the hilt of a keris in the olden days is often exposed for everyone to see. Its a warning to those who dare try to create problems with the wearer of the keris hilted with this design / motif. Something like, ''widow maker'' signage for everone to see. ''if you try to be funny with me, think about your wife at home who will definitely mourn your death''. Unfortunately, i am not able to provide any reference for this.

25th October 2011, 10:48 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Mr. Kerner and Mr. Jensen have both now been promoted to a higher existence. Both were refined and gentle men, giving true meaning to the term "gentleman". My feeling is that the ideas of both should be permitted to rest. I disagree strongly with this "vieled Durga" terminology, and I have somewhat of a problem with "balu mekabun" also ---"balu" is Old Javanese for "widow", but "mekabun"? I do not know the word, nor "kabun", and I cannot find it in Old Javanese, Modern Javanese, Balinese, Kawi, nor Indonesian. I could be utterly wrong, but to me it looks very much like a corrupted spelling, and the name as a whole a combination of words put together from different languages. Look at the word "mekabun". "Me" can be a prefix, and if the second part of the word was "kebun" we would have prefix "me" + "garden". But even then we would not have a recognisable word, because "mekebun" is grammatically incorrect.As a "garden" related word, it simply does not exist. My feeling is that the term "balu mekabun" was the invention of some western person who half understood some Indonesian language. Now, my reasoning could be totally incorrect:- "balu mekabun" might be a language or dialect that I do not know; it might be Palembang dialect. Can anybody identify this term as coming from any Indonesian language? I feel that both of these terms should be left to lay without further debate, but that a new and supportable term be coined for this hilt form, pending the time when some interested party actually goes into the field and obtains the generally used local name for this form --- and that may not be so easy at the present time. I think of this form as "Palembang symbolic figural", or just "Palembang figural". David seems to like "Batman". Perhaps somebody else might like to propose a name that will not generate disagreement when it is used?