Restoration Workshop Library.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams, Perhaps the simplest way to move forward is to make this subject a STICKY ?

Regards,

Ibrahiim al Balooshi

[Jim McDougall]

Originally Posted by Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Salaams, Perhaps the simplest way to move forward is to make this subject a STICKY ?

Regards,

Ibrahiim al Balooshi

Hi Ibrahiim,
While the topic of restoration is indeed of considerable interest and of course, importance to many on the collecting community, it is, along with the production of reproduction weapons far from the theme of discussions here.
I am not a collector, but a historian, and actually the maintainance and general cleaning etc. of weapons often detracts from pursuing important discussion pertaining to the historical features of the weapon at hand.

I think it is preferable that sharing tips and advice on these attentions to weapons should be handled via private contact to those members who are interested, not only to keep focus on discussion topics but to avoid repurcussions from advice which may prove faulty, and inadvertantly costly if a weapon should end up compromised.

I hope you will understand that this is not to diminish the importance of careful and conservative restoration of weapons, quite the contrary, but that these matters are better addressed at an ad hoc level rather than on a specialized venue.

All very best regards,
Jim

[RDGAC]

Jim,

With all due deference, I disagree. Speaking both personally and professionally, my prime use of this site has been to accumulate information on care for the arms in my care; while I have an acute interest in their history, the first priority must always be their preservation. Once they are stable, and their further degeneration has been guarded against, the all-important matter of research can be attended to. The first priority must always be to maintain the weapon's integrity; it's bloody hard work, trying to do research on something you can't see!

I do see your point regarding the importance of the history of our various artefacts; however, I'm not at all in favour of what sounds strangely like a banishment of that discussion to the realms of ad-hoc inter-personal correspondence. Such an approach encourages inefficiency and duplication of effort, while reducing the number of sources readily accessible by the community's members.

A centralised resource, as well as allowing the ready dissemination of this information (coming from numerous sources) would also encourage the consolidation of queries relating to the care and restoration of weapons in one area. It in no way need detract, or distract, from historical discussions on the forum; indeed, so far as I can see, it may make a valuable contribution to them. Have not men cared for their prized machines of war through the centuries? I note that the stock of my latest jezail, though plain in aspect compared to many of its kin, retains some traces of paint; was that paint applied, or touched up, by some long-forgotten Afghan warrior, squinting in the dying daylight as he patiently wielded his brush?

Probably not. But asking "how do I keep it there" in no way prevents me from also asking, "why is it there?"

[Jim McDougall]

Points well taken RDG, and you are of course absolutely right, it is great to have interaction from professionals like yourself and many others who are professionally involved in the care and preservation of these weapons. My main focus was toward concerns about repurcussions which might result from faulty advice given by individuals inadvertantly causing damage or compromise in a subject weapon.

It is well understood that authors of posts here are responsible for the material or comments they present, however in a public venue such as this a distinct location specifically for dissemination and exchange of such specialized and potentially intricate activity as restoration could be construed as officially endorsed commentary. This would easily fall under the umbrella involving legal advice, appraisals or valuations etc.

I should have worded my comments better, and as you know, I understand completely what you mean about preserving these arms and any part of material history from further detioration or damage. I simply think that questions and comments on these matters should continue in context status quo, and that the current standard of presentation is satisfactory. I think that the 'search' feature provided will provide ready access to past notes the same as it does in finding discussed material on certain weapon forms, and I very much encourage members and readers to use that.

I would like to reword my comments concerning conversation included in discussion of historical weapons that pertains to restoration in progress and note that is often integral in examination and observation on the weapon.
I would recommend here that suggestions or tips added by the post author should include a disclaiming statement as a caveat and reminder that there are many variables which should be considered in following the process or materials used in following noted directions.
I am sure you agree that restoration and cleaning should be carried out responsibly and carefully, and that was one of my concerns along with the possible repurcussions....not that weapons should not be conserved.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention so that I might clarify and better express my comments, as well as reminding me of the outstanding work you have performed on the weapons you have presented here. Outstanding work!!!

All my very best regards,
Jim

[DaveA]

I am a collector and participant in the forums. I eagerly seek out any and all information I can find on the items in my collection. I know next to nothing about restoration. My primary concern is cleaning and care.

I would very much like to see a sub-forum devoted to advice on such topics as have been discussed in this thread earlier.

Moderated -- but with a light hand. Remember that there are many people here with varying degrees of wisdom, concerns and so forth. What makes these forums so valuable is not just an individual post, but the give and take. Out of the discussion emerges wisdom, whether it be consensus or awareness of multiple points of view. My point is that any given topic will, over time, be "self-corrective" because of all the knowledge and experience that is pooled.

Final point -- what is done with an item is really up to the owner. Each of us WILL clean or oil or otherwise maintain items in our collection, as we see fit, to the best of our knowledge. It is incumbent on the community that is interested in preserving these arms that everyone has the best available information. The absence of good advice is likely to have negative consequences for preservation of our treasures. The presence of good advice can only help.

Thanks for the chance to comment.

- Dave A.

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Salaams,
So far the general feed back looks very good and in favour of being set up, perhaps, under the banner Restoration and Preservation? It can be enhanced with the logo "do as much as is necessary, and as little as is possible" plus the added safety caveat outlined by Jim so there is no liability etc. It would make a suitable Sticky until a better idea is formulated.

Regards,
Ibrahiim al Balooshi.

[RDGAC]

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

Points well taken RDG, and you are of course absolutely right, it is great to have interaction from professionals like yourself and many others who are professionally involved in the care and preservation of these weapons. My main focus was toward concerns about repurcussions which might result from faulty advice given by individuals inadvertantly causing damage or compromise in a subject weapon.

It is well understood that authors of posts here are responsible for the material or comments they present, however in a public venue such as this a distinct location specifically for dissemination and exchange of such specialized and potentially intricate activity as restoration could be construed as officially endorsed commentary. This would easily fall under the umbrella involving legal advice, appraisals or valuations etc.

I should have worded my comments better, and as you know, I understand completely what you mean about preserving these arms and any part of material history from further detioration or damage. I simply think that questions and comments on these matters should continue in context status quo, and that the current standard of presentation is satisfactory. I think that the 'search' feature provided will provide ready access to past notes the same as it does in finding discussed material on certain weapon forms, and I very much encourage members and readers to use that.

I would like to reword my comments concerning conversation included in discussion of historical weapons that pertains to restoration in progress and note that is often integral in examination and observation on the weapon.
I would recommend here that suggestions or tips added by the post author should include a disclaiming statement as a caveat and reminder that there are many variables which should be considered in following the process or materials used in following noted directions.
I am sure you agree that restoration and cleaning should be carried out responsibly and carefully, and that was one of my concerns along with the possible repurcussions....not that weapons should not be conserved.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention so that I might clarify and better express my comments, as well as reminding me of the outstanding work you have performed on the weapons you have presented here. Outstanding work!!!

All my very best regards,
Jim

Jim,

To be quite honest, I'd never even considered the legal aspect of this suggestion. Unfortunately - and with the best will in the world - I lay the blame for the modern litigation culture of the West squarely at the doors of Washington! Anyway, facetiousness aside, I do take your point on the legal business very seriously. It's testament to my naiveté that it never crossed my mind. I should, however, think that an overarching disclaimer, applied to the forum (perhaps in the form of a Sticky thread at the very top of its page), might suffice to safeguard our proverbial behinds. "Any and all information, suggestions or opinions provided on this forum are provided strictly on a non-advice basis and if you make a pig's ear of it, well, it's your own damn fault" might work?

Regarding the current standard, I agree that the information is, on the whole, fairly adequate - where the question has been asked, and answered, heretofore. Where it has not, a thread usually forms, concludes, and then vanishes into the ether. I believe that the concentration of such information, as suggested herein, will not only improve the ease and efficiency with which access to this information can be gained, but encourage still greater improvements in learning and in quality of information available. I'm expecting, to use a clichéd phrase, the whole to be greater than the sum of its parts.

Informedly yours,

Meredydd

[Ibrahiim al Balooshi]

Originally Posted by RDGAC

Jim,

To be quite honest, I'd never even considered the legal aspect of this suggestion. Unfortunately - and with the best will in the world - I lay the blame for the modern litigation culture of the West squarely at the doors of Washington! Anyway, facetiousness aside, I do take your point on the legal business very seriously. It's testament to my naiveté that it never crossed my mind. I should, however, think that an overarching disclaimer, applied to the forum (perhaps in the form of a Sticky thread at the very top of its page), might suffice to safeguard our proverbial behinds. "Any and all information, suggestions or opinions provided on this forum are provided strictly on a non-advice basis and if you make a pig's ear of it, well, it's your own damn fault" might work?

Regarding the current standard, I agree that the information is, on the whole, fairly adequate - where the question has been asked, and answered, heretofore. Where it has not, a thread usually forms, concludes, and then vanishes into the ether. I believe that the concentration of such information, as suggested herein, will not only improve the ease and efficiency with which access to this information can be gained, but encourage still greater improvements in learning and in quality of information available. I'm expecting, to use a clichéd phrase, the whole to be greater than the sum of its parts.

Informedly yours,

Meredydd

Salaams, The question remains ... Would this make a relevant topic to carry forward as a sticky or classic thread... I suggest that it should. Ibrahiim

[RDGAC]

Seconded, and preferably ASAP. If this idea's going to work out well it'll need thinking upon and maturing, but at least we can get started, and make people aware that it's "opening for business" before long.