Question of Spear origins

Jim McDougall · 15th October 2011, 12:33 AM

This is really an interesting thread, so its good to see it back. I really have little knowledge on both the fields of spears and SE Asian weapons, but looked into Elgood ("Hindu Arms and Ritual") to see if anything relevant might be there.
On p.194 (19.13) a 'sang' type spear (with katar style head of Vellore gauntlet form) attributed probably to Mysore and late 16th century has these rings or collars on the socket and in the same illustration is a 'vel' with peepal leaf shaped head, to early 16th c.
It is noted that these collars, termed 'balls' in this text are called 'nala'. Apparantly these are decoration related to certain ankusa which are symbolic of royalty (op.cit. p.21) and much as on the 'vel' lance are stated to reflect the god Murukan.
Perhaps this decoration is significant in this regard?

On. p.192 spearheads in South India carry similar collars just below the flare of the head in varying spaced configuration apparantly the motif from 15th-16th century Vijayanagara. The design still popular during the Mysore wars of 18th century.

While it appears these collared sockets are prevalent in South India, as well of course as in Sri Lanka, it does seem quite possible that the influence might have extended into SE Asian countries including Thailand and Cambodia. I think the enthusiasts of the dha and weapons of these countries would have better insight, but I thought I'd add these notes.

All the best,
Jim

Nathaniel · 15th October 2011, 04:16 AM

Gavin, love to see some more close ups & sharper pictures of the spear head from different sides and angles when you have time.

Gavin Nugent · 16th October 2011, 11:51 PM

Andrew, Nathaniel, Jim, Thanks for chiming in.

Andrew I know little of the culture but I am all for Gut feelings. Another well versed in Thai arms collector also said I should likley be looking to the region of Cambodia and surrounds.

What I really need to do when time permits is look at lacquer work items from these regions. When you consider the inner shaft is bamboo and that the 'dips' or waists of each section has been resin wrapped in flaxen fiberous material to create a smooth tapering surface from end to end and then to have the surface lacquered black and painted, someone has gone to a lot of trouble to create a very fine spear.

Nathaniel, I will get more detailed images in the weeks to come.

Thanks again guys...if anything further comes to fruition I am all ears and thanks to Dan for posting that image all those years ago.

Gav

Gavin Nugent · 24th December 2016, 08:34 AM

Several years ago, I think I cracked this tough nut and only thought to update today...Sri Lanka.

It makes sense to see Sri Lankan spears in the Thai Royal Palace as the paths of Buddhism are long between Sri Lanka and Thailand.

Gavin

15th October 2011, 12:33 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,459	This is really an interesting thread, so its good to see it back. I really have little knowledge on both the fields of spears and SE Asian weapons, but looked into Elgood ("Hindu Arms and Ritual") to see if anything relevant might be there. On p.194 (19.13) a 'sang' type spear (with katar style head of Vellore gauntlet form) attributed probably to Mysore and late 16th century has these rings or collars on the socket and in the same illustration is a 'vel' with peepal leaf shaped head, to early 16th c. It is noted that these collars, termed 'balls' in this text are called 'nala'. Apparantly these are decoration related to certain ankusa which are symbolic of royalty (op.cit. p.21) and much as on the 'vel' lance are stated to reflect the god Murukan. Perhaps this decoration is significant in this regard? On. p.192 spearheads in South India carry similar collars just below the flare of the head in varying spaced configuration apparantly the motif from 15th-16th century Vijayanagara. The design still popular during the Mysore wars of 18th century. While it appears these collared sockets are prevalent in South India, as well of course as in Sri Lanka, it does seem quite possible that the influence might have extended into SE Asian countries including Thailand and Cambodia. I think the enthusiasts of the dha and weapons of these countries would have better insight, but I thought I'd add these notes. All the best, Jim

15th October 2011, 04:16 AM	#2
Nathaniel Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 865	Gavin, love to see some more close ups & sharper pictures of the spear head from different sides and angles when you have time.

16th October 2011, 11:51 PM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Andrew, Nathaniel, Jim, Thanks for chiming in. Andrew I know little of the culture but I am all for Gut feelings. Another well versed in Thai arms collector also said I should likley be looking to the region of Cambodia and surrounds. What I really need to do when time permits is look at lacquer work items from these regions. When you consider the inner shaft is bamboo and that the 'dips' or waists of each section has been resin wrapped in flaxen fiberous material to create a smooth tapering surface from end to end and then to have the surface lacquered black and painted, someone has gone to a lot of trouble to create a very fine spear. Nathaniel, I will get more detailed images in the weeks to come. Thanks again guys...if anything further comes to fruition I am all ears and thanks to Dan for posting that image all those years ago. Gav

24th December 2016, 08:34 AM	#4
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Several years ago, I think I cracked this tough nut and only thought to update today...Sri Lanka. It makes sense to see Sri Lankan spears in the Thai Royal Palace as the paths of Buddhism are long between Sri Lanka and Thailand. Gavin