West African ? sword for I.D. and comment.

Mauro · 14th October 2011, 12:38 PM

I would be happy to see this Tomba sword and the degree of similarities. The scabbard of my knife has many similarities with the Hausa scabbards and I agree that the Sahel area was almost an highway for exchange of ideas and items. The real Mandingo scabbard is quite different. I am going to find some good photos.
Mauro

Iain · 14th October 2011, 01:25 PM

Hi Mauro,

I agree the Mandingo leatherwork style is entirely different to your sword.

I will send you a PM about that other Tomba sword.

Jim McDougall · 14th October 2011, 04:11 PM

Actually the filled holes in blades are indeed believed to likely be talismanic and similar practice is described in "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" (Yucel) as to bring good luck to the swordsman. The practice actually extends into ancient times and in Frankish swords a gold filled hole or nail driven into a hole in the finished blade was a practice known. This may of course have certain religious proposition as of course blades were inscribed with such invocations.
Briggs in his work on Saharan takoubas notes copper filled holes near the blade tip, and mentions the number of European swords with such features.
It would not be surprising to see the custom or practice diffused well through African regions through trade and colonial activity.

Mauro · 14th October 2011, 07:02 PM

Hi Jim, thanks for your informations. You find holes usually filled with copper or other metal such as this from Sudan to the West African coast. You also find them southward in the Congo basin but I do not remember this practice used in east african blades. If I remember well Ethiopia, Eritrea and also the highland of Kenia and Tanzania have no holes in their blades.

Jim McDougall · 15th October 2011, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauro

Hi Jim, thanks for your informations. You find holes usually filled with copper or other metal such as this from Sudan to the West African coast. You also find them southward in the Congo basin but I do not remember this practice used in east african blades. If I remember well Ethiopia, Eritrea and also the highland of Kenia and Tanzania have no holes in their blades.

You're welcome Mauro, and well noted on the East African blades, a most interesting observation. It seems that this custom or practice, while dating to ancient times, was not universally practiced, but seems well known over vast cultural spheres.

All the best,
Jim

Iain · 17th October 2011, 09:59 AM

I also can't think of an example with holes in the blade.

As an interesting side note, if we all agree this basic sword form is most widely known from the Mandingo with various tribal variations, it is interesting to speculate how far back the form might date - given the history of the Mandingo as the driving force behind the Mali Empire.

Mauro · 17th October 2011, 11:47 AM

In my opinion there are major differences between Toma, Mandingo and Mende swords with some common peculiarities: Mandingo also use curved blades that I do not know among Toma or Mende (but they could exist and it is simply my poor knowledge). The Toma sword that I know are medium sized straight blade while Mende have longer ones such as in the examples illustrated in the photos. Again it is possible that there are shorter swords but I do not know them. There are major variation in the handle and guard that however, in all these tribes is not particularly pronounced. I do not know if Mende and Toma belong to the larger Mandingo group. I know that Mende and Mandingo belong to the Mande linguistic group but I don't know of the Toma. It would be interesting to get information about these kind of swords in the past but unfortunately I do not have any document.

14th October 2011, 12:38 PM	#1
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	I would be happy to see this Tomba sword and the degree of similarities. The scabbard of my knife has many similarities with the Hausa scabbards and I agree that the Sahel area was almost an highway for exchange of ideas and items. The real Mandingo scabbard is quite different. I am going to find some good photos. Mauro

14th October 2011, 01:25 PM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	Hi Mauro, I agree the Mandingo leatherwork style is entirely different to your sword. I will send you a PM about that other Tomba sword.

14th October 2011, 04:11 PM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Actually the filled holes in blades are indeed believed to likely be talismanic and similar practice is described in "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" (Yucel) as to bring good luck to the swordsman. The practice actually extends into ancient times and in Frankish swords a gold filled hole or nail driven into a hole in the finished blade was a practice known. This may of course have certain religious proposition as of course blades were inscribed with such invocations. Briggs in his work on Saharan takoubas notes copper filled holes near the blade tip, and mentions the number of European swords with such features. It would not be surprising to see the custom or practice diffused well through African regions through trade and colonial activity.

14th October 2011, 07:02 PM	#4
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Hi Jim, thanks for your informations. You find holes usually filled with copper or other metal such as this from Sudan to the West African coast. You also find them southward in the Congo basin but I do not remember this practice used in east african blades. If I remember well Ethiopia, Eritrea and also the highland of Kenia and Tanzania have no holes in their blades.

17th October 2011, 09:59 AM	#6
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	I also can't think of an example with holes in the blade. As an interesting side note, if we all agree this basic sword form is most widely known from the Mandingo with various tribal variations, it is interesting to speculate how far back the form might date - given the history of the Mandingo as the driving force behind the Mali Empire.

17th October 2011, 11:47 AM	#7
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	In my opinion there are major differences between Toma, Mandingo and Mende swords with some common peculiarities: Mandingo also use curved blades that I do not know among Toma or Mende (but they could exist and it is simply my poor knowledge). The Toma sword that I know are medium sized straight blade while Mende have longer ones such as in the examples illustrated in the photos. Again it is possible that there are shorter swords but I do not know them. There are major variation in the handle and guard that however, in all these tribes is not particularly pronounced. I do not know if Mende and Toma belong to the larger Mandingo group. I know that Mende and Mandingo belong to the Mande linguistic group but I don't know of the Toma. It would be interesting to get information about these kind of swords in the past but unfortunately I do not have any document.