West African ? sword for I.D. and comment.

Mauro · 11th October 2011, 10:19 PM

Dear Colin, I don't know the meaning of the holes and their filling but they are very common in central African blades especially in the Congo basin. I also suspect it is some kind of talismanic work. In the Congo blades the holes are usually filled with copper that surely had a talismanic significance but also great value. I do not have the sword with me and therefore I am not able to confirm that is an old cartridge case. I shall check. Many thanks for the beautiful photos. I love these old African photos. Many thanks also for the reference of the book that contain it. I already received in previous time the photo in the left side that is a late XIX century photo of a Mende chief. The sword is therefore Mende. The Mende sword is different from ours because it has a wooden pommel with a anular guard with rounded edges made of wood. It is separated from the forte and from the end of the handle by a brass or iron ring (ferrule in English if I remember well) that is missing in these example. Very great photos
thanks

Iain · 14th October 2011, 10:18 AM

Hi Mauro and Colin,

I think I know the mutual friend with a Tomba sword in his collection! I think this is a case where we have a lot of inter related people groups with broadly similar sword styles. I don't have the knowledge to distinguish between them unfortunately.

As a dominant regional group the Mandingo would have I believe a large degree of influence over their neighbors and this probably extended to stylistic cues and weaponry.

Brass, or white metal fills in blades are fairly common in the area, as Mauro pointed out especially in the Congo. But I've seen similar things on swords more from the Sahel (Martin posted a very odd sword a while ago with several copper or brass dots like these).

Colin, really great pictures of the Sherbro! I particularly like the contrast between the chief and the men. The patterning of the cloth the chief is wearing is strikingly similar to what was coming out of major Hausa cloth production centers like Kano. Since I've seen a few trade blades in similar hilts might be interesting to see what we can find about trading between Hausa city states and this area.

Cheers,

Iain

Mauro · 14th October 2011, 12:38 PM

I would be happy to see this Tomba sword and the degree of similarities. The scabbard of my knife has many similarities with the Hausa scabbards and I agree that the Sahel area was almost an highway for exchange of ideas and items. The real Mandingo scabbard is quite different. I am going to find some good photos.
Mauro

Iain · 14th October 2011, 01:25 PM

Hi Mauro,

I agree the Mandingo leatherwork style is entirely different to your sword.

I will send you a PM about that other Tomba sword.

Jim McDougall · 14th October 2011, 04:11 PM

Actually the filled holes in blades are indeed believed to likely be talismanic and similar practice is described in "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" (Yucel) as to bring good luck to the swordsman. The practice actually extends into ancient times and in Frankish swords a gold filled hole or nail driven into a hole in the finished blade was a practice known. This may of course have certain religious proposition as of course blades were inscribed with such invocations.
Briggs in his work on Saharan takoubas notes copper filled holes near the blade tip, and mentions the number of European swords with such features.
It would not be surprising to see the custom or practice diffused well through African regions through trade and colonial activity.

Mauro · 14th October 2011, 07:02 PM

Hi Jim, thanks for your informations. You find holes usually filled with copper or other metal such as this from Sudan to the West African coast. You also find them southward in the Congo basin but I do not remember this practice used in east african blades. If I remember well Ethiopia, Eritrea and also the highland of Kenia and Tanzania have no holes in their blades.

Jim McDougall · 15th October 2011, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauro

Hi Jim, thanks for your informations. You find holes usually filled with copper or other metal such as this from Sudan to the West African coast. You also find them southward in the Congo basin but I do not remember this practice used in east african blades. If I remember well Ethiopia, Eritrea and also the highland of Kenia and Tanzania have no holes in their blades.

You're welcome Mauro, and well noted on the East African blades, a most interesting observation. It seems that this custom or practice, while dating to ancient times, was not universally practiced, but seems well known over vast cultural spheres.

All the best,
Jim

11th October 2011, 10:19 PM	#1
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Dear Colin, I don't know the meaning of the holes and their filling but they are very common in central African blades especially in the Congo basin. I also suspect it is some kind of talismanic work. In the Congo blades the holes are usually filled with copper that surely had a talismanic significance but also great value. I do not have the sword with me and therefore I am not able to confirm that is an old cartridge case. I shall check. Many thanks for the beautiful photos. I love these old African photos. Many thanks also for the reference of the book that contain it. I already received in previous time the photo in the left side that is a late XIX century photo of a Mende chief. The sword is therefore Mende. The Mende sword is different from ours because it has a wooden pommel with a anular guard with rounded edges made of wood. It is separated from the forte and from the end of the handle by a brass or iron ring (ferrule in English if I remember well) that is missing in these example. Very great photos thanks

14th October 2011, 10:18 AM	#2
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	Hi Mauro and Colin, I think I know the mutual friend with a Tomba sword in his collection! I think this is a case where we have a lot of inter related people groups with broadly similar sword styles. I don't have the knowledge to distinguish between them unfortunately. As a dominant regional group the Mandingo would have I believe a large degree of influence over their neighbors and this probably extended to stylistic cues and weaponry. Brass, or white metal fills in blades are fairly common in the area, as Mauro pointed out especially in the Congo. But I've seen similar things on swords more from the Sahel (Martin posted a very odd sword a while ago with several copper or brass dots like these). Colin, really great pictures of the Sherbro! I particularly like the contrast between the chief and the men. The patterning of the cloth the chief is wearing is strikingly similar to what was coming out of major Hausa cloth production centers like Kano. Since I've seen a few trade blades in similar hilts might be interesting to see what we can find about trading between Hausa city states and this area. Cheers, Iain

14th October 2011, 12:38 PM	#3
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	I would be happy to see this Tomba sword and the degree of similarities. The scabbard of my knife has many similarities with the Hausa scabbards and I agree that the Sahel area was almost an highway for exchange of ideas and items. The real Mandingo scabbard is quite different. I am going to find some good photos. Mauro

14th October 2011, 01:25 PM	#4
Iain Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Olomouc Posts: 1,717	Hi Mauro, I agree the Mandingo leatherwork style is entirely different to your sword. I will send you a PM about that other Tomba sword.

14th October 2011, 04:11 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Actually the filled holes in blades are indeed believed to likely be talismanic and similar practice is described in "Islamic Swords and Swordsmiths" (Yucel) as to bring good luck to the swordsman. The practice actually extends into ancient times and in Frankish swords a gold filled hole or nail driven into a hole in the finished blade was a practice known. This may of course have certain religious proposition as of course blades were inscribed with such invocations. Briggs in his work on Saharan takoubas notes copper filled holes near the blade tip, and mentions the number of European swords with such features. It would not be surprising to see the custom or practice diffused well through African regions through trade and colonial activity.

14th October 2011, 07:02 PM	#6
Mauro Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 83	Hi Jim, thanks for your informations. You find holes usually filled with copper or other metal such as this from Sudan to the West African coast. You also find them southward in the Congo basin but I do not remember this practice used in east african blades. If I remember well Ethiopia, Eritrea and also the highland of Kenia and Tanzania have no holes in their blades.