Another Unique Malay Sundang

kai · 21st September 2011, 08:13 AM

Hello Charles,

Quote:

Any symbolic significance to the brass inlays that anyone can think of??

This blade doesn't look antique to me - maybe more like before WW2? While the dots may still have had some meaning in Malay culture, I wouldn't discount the possibility that they were just added because they are seen in some Moro kris, too...

Regards,
Kai

CharlesS · 21st September 2011, 12:34 PM

Kai,

I am just curious; what about this blade does not look "antique"? Were it a Moro blade I think it would be much easier to "date", but I am not as familiar with Malay blades.

Could you please post some comparative examples for contrast and study?

mross · 21st September 2011, 04:12 PM

Looks cool very unique, I like it.

Spunjer · 21st September 2011, 06:12 PM

Nice one, my friend! Does it have a twisty core?

Gustav · 21st September 2011, 06:38 PM

The engravings on hilt look like a chinese work, compare it to pendok on second keris here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=chinese+keris

Is there a possibility, such (triangular) configuration of fullers on base of blade is more sumatran then malay? Have seen such on two sumatran dreesed keris blades.

CharlesS · 22nd September 2011, 01:07 PM

Sorry, no twistcore blade Spunjer!

Battara · 22nd September 2011, 11:28 PM

Hate to say but the chasing work on the hilt is common okir style to the region. Maybe a Chinese silversmith made it, maybe not.

kai · 30th September 2011, 09:12 AM

Hello Gustav,

Quote:

Is there a possibility, such (triangular) configuration of fullers on base of blade is more sumatran then malay? Have seen such on two sumatran dreesed keris blades.

Which keris are you thinking of? Could you please post pics? TIA!

Regards,
Kai

Gustav · 30th September 2011, 12:24 PM

Hello Kai,

unfortunately I don't have any pictures of these Keris. Both have had similar triangular fullers at the base, combined with elongated srawejan/kruwingan, and both Sumatran (Riau) sheaths.

You are of course wright about the Sundang I posted, the similarity is only very superficial, just this glimpse of disappeared sogokan. Here a pic of another Sundang, which is probably similar to the one in Museum.

As I wrote, I suppose, the sundang of Charles has lost some material abowe the Greneng; the space between fuller and edge should be equally broad as on the Kembang Kacang side. I think, there is some minimal markings of reshaping also abowe the (actually much to small and Moro looking) Kembang Kacang, and this space (Gusen) could originally be broader also on this side.

Sorry for the inappropriate Javanese terminology to describe the features!

I suppose also, there were some "extern" Greneng beyond the inserted dots, which is almost completely gone. As ever, the most loss of material is at the Wadidang/Greneng area. Becouse of this very common reshaping I thought, this Sundang could be slightly older (end of 19. cent.), yet your observation about angular Tungkakan is very good. I really don't know.

kai · 30th September 2011, 08:51 AM

Hello Charles,

Sorry for the late reply!

Quote:

I am just curious; what about this blade does not look "antique"? Were it a Moro blade I think it would be much easier to "date", but I am not as familiar with Malay blades.

If this were a Moro blade, the strongly angular separation line would most likely place it in the 1920-1930 period. Thus, it seems unlikely to me that (despite their obvious creativity) any Malay bladesmith made this earlier.

Your blade looks nice (with workmanship of better quality than most Moro kris of that period) but lacks the crispness and flow I'd expect from a 19th century kris (of good quality); some details like the greneng and the jalen as well as the pretty homogenous metal and the stained wood pommel seem to support a 1920-1940 period for its origin. Wait a decade or two and I won't quibble with it being antique anymore...

Regards,
Kai

30th September 2011, 12:24 PM	#9
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	Hello Kai, unfortunately I don't have any pictures of these Keris. Both have had similar triangular fullers at the base, combined with elongated srawejan/kruwingan, and both Sumatran (Riau) sheaths. You are of course wright about the Sundang I posted, the similarity is only very superficial, just this glimpse of disappeared sogokan. Here a pic of another Sundang, which is probably similar to the one in Museum. As I wrote, I suppose, the sundang of Charles has lost some material abowe the Greneng; the space between fuller and edge should be equally broad as on the Kembang Kacang side. I think, there is some minimal markings of reshaping also abowe the (actually much to small and Moro looking) Kembang Kacang, and this space (Gusen) could originally be broader also on this side. Sorry for the inappropriate Javanese terminology to describe the features! I suppose also, there were some "extern" Greneng beyond the inserted dots, which is almost completely gone. As ever, the most loss of material is at the Wadidang/Greneng area. Becouse of this very common reshaping I thought, this Sundang could be slightly older (end of 19. cent.), yet your observation about angular Tungkakan is very good. I really don't know. Attached Images Last edited by Gustav; 30th September 2011 at 12:53 PM.

21st September 2011, 12:34 PM	#2
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Kai, I am just curious; what about this blade does not look "antique"? Were it a Moro blade I think it would be much easier to "date", but I am not as familiar with Malay blades. Could you please post some comparative examples for contrast and study?

21st September 2011, 04:12 PM	#3
mross Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 478	Looks cool very unique, I like it.

21st September 2011, 06:12 PM	#4
Spunjer Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Witness Protection Program Posts: 1,730	Nice one, my friend! Does it have a twisty core?

21st September 2011, 06:38 PM	#5
Gustav Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,280	The engravings on hilt look like a chinese work, compare it to pendok on second keris here: http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...=chinese+keris Is there a possibility, such (triangular) configuration of fullers on base of blade is more sumatran then malay? Have seen such on two sumatran dreesed keris blades.

22nd September 2011, 01:07 PM	#6
CharlesS Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Greenville, NC Posts: 1,854	Sorry, no twistcore blade Spunjer!

22nd September 2011, 11:28 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Hate to say but the chasing work on the hilt is common okir style to the region. Maybe a Chinese silversmith made it, maybe not.