16th Century German Staghorn Powderflasks

rickystl · 11th September 2011, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fernando

Hi Rick,
It looks like this fascinating thing has two legs and is running over to my house

.

Hi Fernando!! I'm going to attach it to my belt so it can't move

rickystl · 11th September 2011, 08:43 PM

Hi Michael!! As usual, thank you so much for the outstanding information on this piece. WOW!! Even better than I expected. And, thanks for posting your wonderful collection and the additional photos, etc.
I won't touch the patina on mine. Don't know what I was thinking

Attached is a better photo of the head assembly. It's in perfect working order, with no parts missing.
Only one small problem: On the back of the belt hook was a very small pin that fit into a small hole in the staghorn to to keep the belt hook from moving back and fourth. Well, the pin broke off with the small piece still in the horn (see photo). It was this way when I bought it. I'm thinking of having the tiny piece of pin drilled out, and have a new pin soldered on where the old one was. The soldering won't show. I have the right guy that can do this, and I even have tiny pieces of iron pins that are 200+ years old that I can use. What do you think? Thanks again for your help. Rick.

Matchlock · 11th September 2011, 09:27 PM

Hi Rick,

There was not a pin but a screw thread soldered to the underside of the belt hook or made out of an iron pin rivited there. Of the two holes in the horn, I guess the upper was the original one. Just take out the top mount transverse screw and take off the belt hook and you should find the remains of the thread.
At the same time please screw off the side cord rings, take off the top mount and look inside whether the horizontally moving cut-off plate is still riveted there. You should also find greenspan from the copper soldering processs.
Was there ever powder in your flask?

Please take good images of the inside and show us! The outcome would be highly interesting.

Best,
Michael

rickystl · 12th September 2011, 01:40 AM

Hi Michael. Will do. I'll take it apart this week and report back. Yes, it should be very interesting. Rick.

rickystl · 30th September 2011, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickystl

Hi Michael. Will do. I'll take it apart this week and report back. Yes, it should be very interesting. Rick.

I just LOST the text to my message. I'll report back later. Meantime, here are some pics. Rick.

Matchlock · 6th October 2011, 06:53 PM

Hi Rick,

The outcome rexactly responded to what I expected, even the horizontally acting oblong cut-off plate is still there - great original condition for 1570!

The black lacquer on the iron parts is hundreds of years old arsenal care; I would plead to preserve it all exactly the way it came down to you.

What I cannot see: Just put your finger into the flask to check whether there are remains of powder on the inner sides!

And: could you identify the remainder of the broken-off threaded pin on the inner side of the belt hook?

Best,
and congrats again,
Michael

rickystl · 7th October 2011, 03:58 PM

Hi Michael!! Glad you were able to see the photos of the flask dis-assembled. Some how when I posted this last set of photos I accidently deleted my text. Have no idea how I did it?
The flask has been re-assembled now. I even ran a pipe cleaner through it but could not find any powder. Darn

However, there was a slight staining inside that did show evidence that powder was once there.
The tiny threaded piece that helped to secure the belt hook: There are actually two threaded pieces, one directly on top of the other, corresponding exactly with the two holes on the outside. A camera could not pick this up.
Both of the broken threaded pieces are old. Under magnafication I could just barely make out where the first pin was ground off (a long time ago) on the belt hook itself and another threaded piece was added (a long time ago) and subsequently broke again.
But, all the pieces are there and working!! It's great that both the measuring and shut off springs are not broke.
Earlier in my Post I mentioned that I was thinking of repairing the tiny pin - yet a third time in it's history. But, this would require drilling out one of the old threaded pieces and "soldering" a new piece on.

That would be altering the piece to far. Therefore, I will keep it in it's current condition on display in my collection. Rick.

11th September 2011, 08:43 PM	#2
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hi Michael!! As usual, thank you so much for the outstanding information on this piece. WOW!! Even better than I expected. And, thanks for posting your wonderful collection and the additional photos, etc. I won't touch the patina on mine. Don't know what I was thinking Attached is a better photo of the head assembly. It's in perfect working order, with no parts missing. Only one small problem: On the back of the belt hook was a very small pin that fit into a small hole in the staghorn to to keep the belt hook from moving back and fourth. Well, the pin broke off with the small piece still in the horn (see photo). It was this way when I bought it. I'm thinking of having the tiny piece of pin drilled out, and have a new pin soldered on where the old one was. The soldering won't show. I have the right guy that can do this, and I even have tiny pieces of iron pins that are 200+ years old that I can use. What do you think? Thanks again for your help. Rick. Attached Images

11th September 2011, 09:27 PM	#3
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Rick, There was not a pin but a screw thread soldered to the underside of the belt hook or made out of an iron pin rivited there. Of the two holes in the horn, I guess the upper was the original one. Just take out the top mount transverse screw and take off the belt hook and you should find the remains of the thread. At the same time please screw off the side cord rings, take off the top mount and look inside whether the horizontally moving cut-off plate is still riveted there. You should also find greenspan from the copper soldering processs. Was there ever powder in your flask? Please take good images of the inside and show us! The outcome would be highly interesting. Best, Michael Last edited by Matchlock; 11th September 2011 at 09:39 PM.

12th September 2011, 01:40 AM	#4
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hi Michael. Will do. I'll take it apart this week and report back. Yes, it should be very interesting. Rick.

6th October 2011, 06:53 PM	#6
Matchlock (deceased) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Bavaria, Germany - the center of 15th and 16th century gunmaking Posts: 4,310	Hi Rick, The outcome rexactly responded to what I expected, even the horizontally acting oblong cut-off plate is still there - great original condition for 1570! The black lacquer on the iron parts is hundreds of years old arsenal care; I would plead to preserve it all exactly the way it came down to you. What I cannot see: Just put your finger into the flask to check whether there are remains of powder on the inner sides! And: could you identify the remainder of the broken-off threaded pin on the inner side of the belt hook? Best, and congrats again, Michael

7th October 2011, 03:58 PM	#7
rickystl Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: St. Louis, MO area. Posts: 1,630	Hi Michael!! Glad you were able to see the photos of the flask dis-assembled. Some how when I posted this last set of photos I accidently deleted my text. Have no idea how I did it? The flask has been re-assembled now. I even ran a pipe cleaner through it but could not find any powder. Darn However, there was a slight staining inside that did show evidence that powder was once there. The tiny threaded piece that helped to secure the belt hook: There are actually two threaded pieces, one directly on top of the other, corresponding exactly with the two holes on the outside. A camera could not pick this up. Both of the broken threaded pieces are old. Under magnafication I could just barely make out where the first pin was ground off (a long time ago) on the belt hook itself and another threaded piece was added (a long time ago) and subsequently broke again. But, all the pieces are there and working!! It's great that both the measuring and shut off springs are not broke. Earlier in my Post I mentioned that I was thinking of repairing the tiny pin - yet a third time in it's history. But, this would require drilling out one of the old threaded pieces and "soldering" a new piece on. That would be altering the piece to far. Therefore, I will keep it in it's current condition on display in my collection. Rick.